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Hi all, first post so be gentle

My son's been having a few beginner sessions at our local GW shop and as I have to stay with him, I've been trying to learn the rules as best I can

During the game, he was using Ghazghkull as an IC and won an assault against a few marines and subsequently caused them to fall back.

He then wanted to do a sweeping advance but the guy in the shop said he couldn't because Ghaz had the slow and purposeful rule. I had a quick flick through the rulebook but couldn't see why this rule would stop a sweeping advance but thought 'well this bloke works here he must know the rules'

I'm still learning the basics myself so thought I'd ask the experts on here and having had a further look through I'm of the opinion that the guy in the shop was talking b*****ks

Was he?

I do not think SandP stops Sweeping Advance.

I don't think S&P stops a sweeping advance either. I don't have my BRB with me but I am going to check when I get home.

Slow and Purposeful does not stop sweeping advance, nor does Mega-Armour. So Yes Ghazzy can run dem 'umies down!

S&P does not stop it, so in spite of moving more slowly than terminators in the movement and assault phase, they are fast enough to SA (unless mega armour has other caveats).

No, Slow and Purposefull does not stop sweeping advances, nor does Mega Amour. He was probably thinking it does due to the fact that models in Terminator Armour does not allow a sweeping advance.

Unfortunatly not all GW employee's know all the rules for their games. They are hired as salespeople, and many will learn the rules for the games after they start working. Generally though employee's will have had an interest in GW before being hired, weather it be as a painter, gamer, or both. I know at the local GW(before they closed it down in December) one of our regulars ended up getting a job there, and he had never played LOTR before he started there, and although he did play 40k, he didn't have all the rules memorised(but he was a damn good painter, player and all around good guy).

It's worthwhile to note that while Ghaz could have sweeping advanced the Marines, the Marines are immune to Sweeping Advance due to the 'And They Shall Know No Fear' rule.

Bloody annoying rule, that.

And yes, the store owner was talking out of the wrong orifice..

Wow, I completely missed the part about the Marines.
EPIC FAIL!

In light of this bit of information I overlooked I will have say that Ascalam is correct.

Marines are immune to sweeping advance, this however means they take 'No retreat' wounds based on how badly they lost the combat.

This is unless of course Marneus Calgar is on the field in which case God of War applies. I think that's the name anyway, you can choose to pass or fail morale tests.

spooge wrote: I had a quick flick through the rulebook but couldn't see why this rule would stop a sweeping advance but thought 'well this bloke works here he must know the rules'?

You already learned the first lesson about '40K - always read the rules for yourself. Store employees are frequently confused on account of either never having played or being veterans of so many rules editions that they can no longer keep it all straight. They're only human after all, just like the rest of us.

And I do agree that it seems odd that someone slower than a Terminator marine can sweep, but nothing forbids it.

I'd rather think it's odd that terminators who really move the same speed as regular infantry can't sweep.

In fluff terminators odnt move as fast as PA folk, so it makes sense they dont react quickly enough to stop you turning tail and running

I play orks, and tonnes of people think mega armour means you can't sweeping advance. It's because people think that they're just ork terminators. I think you'll find that a lot of people who don't play orks will insist the Mega armoured orks can't sweeping advance.

But they can... oh yes they can...

They'll not catch many, with I of 2, but those they do catch get trampled, and those that don't will be in dakka range instead

Dean889 wrote:I play orks, and tonnes of people think mega armour means you can't sweeping advance. It's because people think that they're just ork terminators. I think you'll find that a lot of people who don't play orks will insist the Mega armoured orks can't sweeping advance.

Not a problem, just insist on the 5++ save then.

Ascalam wrote:But they can... oh yes they can...

They'll not catch many, with I of 2, but those they do catch get trampled, and those that don't will be in dakka range instead

Nobz are I3... take that, Imperial Guard!

My bad

You're right on that

The store owner was right, but for the wrong reasons. Marines ATSKNF makes them immune to sweeping advances, not Ghazzy's inability to move like a gazelle.

-cgmckenzie

That said, his dread sized, jerry-built and crude and nasty mecha-suit is still more agile than the all-holy Termies

I find this irony deeply amusing

He may have been think of 4th edition when it did stop SA

cgmckenzie wrote:The store owner was right, but for the wrong reasons. Marines ATSKNF makes them immune to sweeping advances, not Ghazzy's inability to move like a gazelle.

-cgmckenzie

They are not immune to Sweep Advance. They be be caught by a Sweep Advance, they just do not get destroyed. They additional wounds. If they were immune to Sweep Advance then you could never roll the catch them.

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated

Fairly certain they had terminator armour because I remember the little star pattern on one arm

So is this what should have happened?:

Ghazhkull won the assault and makes a sweeping advance
Let's say he won the advance, the terminators would not be destroyed due to ATSKNF
The terminators follow the No Retreat rule and take extra wounds equal to the number of wounds they lost the combat by
Surviving terminators do not fall back and assault continues next turn

Correct, they only fall back if they are not caught.

jbunny wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:The store owner was right, but for the wrong reasons. Marines ATSKNF makes them immune to sweeping advances, not Ghazzy's inability to move like a gazelle.

-cgmckenzie

They are not immune to Sweep Advance. They be be caught by a Sweep Advance, they just do not get destroyed. They additional wounds. If they were immune to Sweep Advance then you could never roll the catch them.

Which makes them immune to sweeping advance. ATSKNF replaces it.

I'll restate then, to allow for sophists:

They are immune to instagibbing destruction by sweeping advance

Marines are easy-mode.

Yup

Real men-analogs have 6+ or worse armour, and are green

Krootorks Represent

(kidding)

Marines are easy mode though. Probably why everyone plays them ;0)

Ascalam wrote:It's worthwhile to note that while Ghaz could have sweeping advanced the Marines, the Marines are immune to Sweeping Advance due to the 'And They Shall Know No Fear' rule.

Bloody annoying rule, that.

And yes, the store owner was talking out of the wrong orifice..

Holy crap do I agree with you on that one.

Ha you failed your LD check and now you haev to fall back
Its ok I wanted to shoot you anyways
What?!
Yea they can shoot even when they fell back

So can everyone else, but we aren't generally around long enough to have the option

Fearless is also far less of a kicker if you happen to be encased in 3+ or 2+5++ goodness..

If fearless wounds ignored armour completely i would be ok with it...

We had this come up the other day as well, and it brought a lot of head scratching and a quick glance at the rulebook clarified it.

If you don't have a mini rulebook from the AOBR starter set, they are worth every penny. Ebay always has them.