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Greeting people of Dakka, i have a specific problem today and that is a decision on a number of Terminator themed armies that could be possible and i do not know which to give more thought to than the others, so i have a couple of army "outlines"/list ideas that are not point for point exact, put a rough outline of what could be fit into a 1750-2000 point army and what pro's and con's each list would have, if anyone disagrees please speak up and give corrections as i am not the all to know expert on this matter!

List One: Codex Space Marines Terminator build army
This list cannot have terminators as troops so it is not the most obvious of all the Terminator themed armies, so it is based around maxing out the terminator elite slots using the set cost of the set terminator to get more than most armies can field while still being effective, usually without land raiders since they cost to much for the army. The troops are usually scouts at the smallest sizes, maybe in a scout speeder, making the total points of these around 200, so if each Terminator squad is around 460 ( 400 for just the ten assault terminators) , then 30 would be around 1320, then like 250 for the scouts then throw in lysander you are looking at around 1750 (10 assault terminators and 20 standard terminators since they need the firepower) Either the terminators have assault cannons or cyclones depending on preference of the player ( i personally love assault cannons since they can perform to the degree of cyclones if your lucky and can then turn into anti infantry and still hurt other tough enemies)
Pro's:
Can take mobs of 10 terminators
Can combat squad
Take really cheap 10 man Assault terminators
Really mobile troop choices
Con's:
Minimal troops
Cant take mass storm shields without giving up the long range firepower
Cant really take land raiders while maintaining the necessary built of the list

Dark Angels Deathwing Army:
This is the army the made the iconic image of the Terminator army and gave it it's image and popularity! Now they can only take the 5 man squads, but they can mix in the assault weapons and the longer range firepower, this is what gave them the edge over other terminators and truly gave you some room to actually customize the squad a bit. And with the FAQ they have received the Storm shield and thunder hammer combo is actually on a strong rise and has been some people using that combo with the cyclone launchers, and are content to sit there and widdle down the enemy as they can bring anything to bear to kill the wall of 2/3++ Bone armour. Now with this built Belial is mandatory and sometimes people take a chaplain but some see that as an unnecessary cost, i don't have a speculation on this. Now the average squad of 5 will run in about 230-240 with the necessary upgrades and weapon loadouts. So i cant put one specific build on this since people like to through in ravenwing for more mobile elements when they hit the 30 man mark and would have to go to elite's to fill it in, people usually fill in Landraiders, Dreadnoughts, or the Ravenwing builds, i am personally a fan of the Land raiders, For my list the Belial, 5 or 6 terminators squads and 2 land raiders for my list!
Pros:
Can mix and match weapon load outs between assault and ranged
Can score
Cheap mandatory HQ
Updated FAQ making all the weapons on par with C: SM
Cons:
Only 5 Man
No combat tactics

Space wolves Terminator Army:
I actually have some experience with this one, i used to run a tri- raider list with this army with 21 terminators, not for long though so i cant put in total insight. Now lets first tackle how the troops go. Wolf guard are made troops by Logan and they start out as power armour troops and can take termi gear for a total of 33 points with a power weapon and storm bolter! Now alot of people say thats way to cheap a price for a Terminator! but i have played against them before and are not that great for since the only have the 5+ invul and cannot attack any higher than I 5 with 3 attacks. So you can tool them out with anything, Frost blades with SS to Thunderhammers and combi weapons! you can take a heavy weapon every 5 guys, even if 4 are not in termi armour. Now they can load out like that but their cost skyrocket compared to the C: SM costs of a terminator and you can take less, and that their HQ is over the cost of a land raider and is their super HQ choice furthers to limit what they can take, and Land raiders only further that gap that is between C: Sm and them. Now there is so much you can do with these list im not even going to try, as there is Loganwing, Logan wing with drop pods, and on foot, theres all foot termie armies with cyclones, others with AC everywhere, and some like the triple raider list i ran, but the basic idea is there, and my favorite is the Raider list, i want to remake it but i didnt like how i assembled it last time and would want another shot at it!
Pros:
Terminators as troops
Unmatched versitility on how you load out weapons
Most update Weapons
Codex specific weapons
Can mix and match armour types
Counter charge
Con's:
Hq cost
Unit cost
Weakness' on how the list is based

Grey Knights Terminator Army:
Now this is a tricky one! as there are to routes with this built, Terminators or paladins! Terminators you can go with any HQ and they are already Troops, they can take any of the Transports and can take great Heavy weapons, the average squad with probably round out to around like 250 to 260 dpending on how you kit them out, then there is the mighty paladin built. you have to take Draigo for this, like logan before he is really really expensive one of the most expensive and already over killy unit in the game, but has the only codex's storm shield . They are very expensive and really depends on how you kit them, you can be looking at 400 for a min squad to like 750 for a fully kitted 10 man squad, with each with the ability to master craft, up to 4 psycannons per 10, and the apothicary making them truely deadly but making you force around 15 models at the 200 point level!!!! And thats not even with the librarian factored in for shrouding for their cover save, since they dont got SS
Pro's:
The most elite Terminators in the game
Psycannons and Incinerators! Heavy flamers and AC's on crack!
Master craft
Troops
Have a 2000 army under 250 dollars
Cons:
To expensive sometimes
Super spendy HQ
Foot bound
Not army wide SS available

Last but not Least Black Templar Terminator List:
Now this a rare list that a friend of mine runs, it is a smart but odd list, a AC spam!!! You take the command squads and the 3 elite squads and since the Codex is older you can take 2 Heavy weapons per squad, and tank hunter!!! so you can have 25 Terminators and 10 AC's with tank hunter. With that you take some small crusader squads with a long range weapons and there you have one of the most shooty terminator lists you can get, and if you have to assault you got a pissed off marshal and emperors champion and probably a 3 wound chaplain!!
Pros:
Super Dakka with AC's
Tank Hunter
2 per 5 on heavy weapons
Black templar assault buffs
Cons:
Not SS in the army probably
Not much room left for vehicles
Not troops
Have to take 2 Hq's and Emperors champ

So there you have it, thats A LOT!!!!!
Now hopefully you enjoyed the read, and it wasn't a waste and i wasn't spewing random gibberish!
Now all i ask is that i gave you a rough idea of each list and what it can give and how i would build it, so please!!!! give you opinion on what you build you like the most and which one i should tackle as i love each and am torn between each and some out side opinion would really help, so People of Dakka, if you are here reading this, Thanks for reading!!

Grey knights are the new hotness. Their plastic terminator models are among the best sculpted (heh, skull-pted) and detailed that GW has made. Their rules are hard as nails.

While expensive, I like the idea of an elite army. They certainly are.

I'm saying all of this as an avid Black Templar player. I enjoy my Terminators and take them often in my lists(Mixed Assault Terminators with Furious Charge for the win!).

When I played Loganwing I thought it was fun, not competitive really, but it was fun to mob around and bash in heads.

Tbh I'd either play GK, or DA and wait for a new DA Codex.(Lol) Especially if you're playing this army for fun a GK list would be a blast to play with their wargear options, and more competitive than most other termie lists.

With the Recent FAQ's DA DW have become the new hotness..

Tons of vet players and newbies are starting these armys instead of GK and SW WL armies....

Just look at the secondary market on SS TH and Cyclone launchers bits vs Assault cannons...

Marzooky wrote:When I played Loganwing I thought it was fun, not competitive really, but it was fun to mob around and bash in heads.

Tbh I'd either play GK, or DA and wait for a new DA Codex.(Lol) Especially if you're playing this army for fun a GK list would be a blast to play with their wargear options, and more competitive than most other termie lists.

What kind of Logan wing was it? was it 5 WG with one in termi armour and a cyclone or AC in drop pods or on foot? that seems to be the predominate these days, or at least thats what i've seen

And ya in the end a Paladin army is probably what it will amount to, made a quick list,
Would be Draigo and a librarian with shrouding and 2 other powers and skulls
A two 7 man and one 6 man paladin squads with 2 master crafted psycannons each, a master crafted hammer, an apothacary, and one squad would get the brotherhood banner, and i believe that that lists is 2k, might be 10 points over, in which case i drop a few skulls and call it good, overall it would be 21 models!!!! and i would be under 200 dollars and id have money left over for cool bases and such, draigo and 4 boxes would be enough, its so tempting because it's fast to assemble, paint and play and i dont think it's all that popular for the straight pally, if anyone got any comments on that please let me know!!!

Njal the Weatherman wrote:( i personally love assault cannons since they can perform to the degree of cyclones if your lucky and can then turn into anti infantry and still hurt other tough enemies)

Cycones are ar superior to assault cannons. I have 3 terminator armies and all 3 run cyclones.

The storm bolter fires, and even with krack missiles that matches the 4 shots of the assault cannon, trading 2 points of strength on 4 shots (2 at 8 and 2 at 4) but doubling range for the heavy shots. They are way better.

Missiles are S8.

Missiles are 48 inch range.

Missiles can burst frag, 2 frags and a storm bolter do way more damage than an assault cannon, easily able to hit more than 4 packed targets.

Cyclones are way more versatile.

Oh also as a side note: Heavy Flamers should be free.

I run 2 varaints of the terminator list with Vanilla Marines:

(1)Kantor + 5/5/7

2 5 man squads with cyclones and a 7 man assault squad. Kantor doesn't really fight, he just rides in the redeemer in the middle of the formation with the assault terminators, the cyclone guys walk up the sides and fire as you deliver the assault terms. Everyone in 12 of the Reedemer gets +1 attacks, sweet, the assault terms then get 4 each on the charge!

(2)Lysander/Librarian 10/10

2 10 man term squads one with T Hammers the other as a double Cyclone. The key here is the librarians powers, he has Gate and Null Zone, this makes a terminator sqaud teleport around like mad. Lysander actualy runs with the big 10 man cyclone squad as his bolter drill twin links the whole thing, 20 twin linked BS4 shots of 2 foot move and fire pain with 4 krak missiles is awesome, and with Lysander it's a loosing proposition to assault its a real ram. In alternate set ups, I combat sqaud the cyclone terminators in 2 and then use the Librarian with Lysander to teleport the assault terminators. This is particualry nasty with scout bikes and a teleport homer for a serious rush, I have crushed entire armies like this! Scout bikes infiltrate AND scout, you drive the homing beacon to pretty much anywhere on the table just remember the Gate only goes 2 feet, so don't be too nutty!

Some general advice:

Terminator armies have the weakness of low model count and they can't always be everywhere, make use of NULLZONE if you can and be wary of power weapon units like banshees, incubi and the like, but generally otherwise play aggressively!

Best of luck!

I remember a time when people read stickies and posted in the proper forums.

This sort of thing should probably be posted in 40K Army Lists - you'll get better feedback that way, I think.

I'm not much of Space Marine player, but I am sorely temped by the new Grey Knights. The list you posted is very compelling.

Ouze wrote:This sort of thing should probably be posted in 40K Army Lists - you'll get better feedback that way, I think.

I'm going with Tactics, actually.

Janthkin wrote:

Ouze wrote:This sort of thing should probably be posted in 40K Army Lists - you'll get better feedback that way, I think.

I'm going with Tactics, actually.

Sorry about that , it was a little bit of a lot of things so i went with the most broad subject i could think of

What about chaos terminators? Ours can work too, although I can't think of a worthwhile build at the moment.

Samus_aran115 wrote:What about chaos terminators? Ours can work too, although I can't think of a worthwhile build at the moment.

I wanted to include them as a list, but ya theres no really good built, most people through in 3 sometimes, with a reaper of heavy flamer with combi, since that built is like 105 to 120 points and can be worth it, or a larger squad, but ive never seen one based on chaos terminator that wasnt a count as, one of my favorites though was the Lustwing, counts as Deathwing

Why assault cannons on the Black Templar Terminators when you can have tank hunting Cyclone missile launchers? I can see why if you drop pod the Terminators in, but if you don't then there's really not much of a point to it.

Samus_aran115 wrote:What about chaos terminators? Ours can work too, although I can't think of a worthwhile build at the moment.

I was looking at a list round 20 chaos terminators with tzeentch mark for 4+ and combi plasma riflles all round, also a single reaper with a chainfist in each squad, possibly as a champion. Sure eats a lot of points, and then theres the walking problem, but wow, what a ton of staying power and 1 turn of awesome shooty!

Maybe?

They aren't fearless and don't have ATSKNF which means they are useless sadly :(

Hulksmash wrote:They aren't fearless and don't have ATSKNF which means they are useless sadly :(

As opposed to 'nilla 'nators, which are quite possibly the best units EVAR!!!!

As a White Scars player, I know I'm breaking a bit of creed in fielding >0 squads of Terminators in my armies, but there is simply nothing more alluring than (Super)Men in (Super)Suits... Glad to know there are other people out there.

@OP, be prepared to use literally everything that isn't a Terminator as bait. If there's one thing that makes 'nators effective is when the enemy ignores them for a turn or two, giving them a chance to close in/shoot/both. Because of this, a 100% Terminator list will never be as effective as a 50% one. Ensure that you are aware of sacrificing many/most of your non-'nator units to create space for them to function at peak effectiveness, but always be ready to use them fully when/if the enemy does concentrate firepower on the heavy suits.

Best advice I can give: With Terminators, timing counts.

I am building a Draigo wing, It looks something like this at 2000pts.

Draigo

Libby w/MoT and shrouding

2X5 paladins w/2 psycannons and various weapons

10 paladins w/4 psycannons, banner, and various weapons, some mc.

2 Psyfleman dreads

It's pretty sweet, and only like $300 too, less if you get stuff online. The big mob can lay out about 35 unsaved wounds that instant death too. Be aware though that paladin armys are very vunerable to demo cannon russes, a lot more than vindicares, because the russ demo cannon can't be killed by psyflemans, and your only tank weapon that can kill it is the same range at it. You sort of have to deepstrike a squad in and hop they can kill it.

Also, I would not but apothecarys in your squads. Most things that will want to shoot at your paladins are instant deathing stuff that ignores fnp. And a ten-man paladin unit with wound allocation requires 180 bolter rounds to kill just one anyway, so the apothecary is way overkill. He's overpriced anyway though.

Well, figured I would share some of my experience with the Black Wing. Just recently I purchased 35 tactical termies for $150 to try out a shooty Templars since my opponents said it was getting stale fighting rhino/raider rush punchy Templars lol. Anyway, my first match was against our GK player and I just have to say WOW. Walking my termies with tank hunter/cyclones was decimating and when i got close enough, shooting a salvo of SB shots with some missiles then charging with Templar AAC powered fists really hurts.

I also played against my brother's Infantry guard and again the termies shined in shooting frags at troop clusters or picking off vehicles with tank hunter missiles!!

So, imo, go Templars, we are angry, shooty, punchy, and angry!!

My most recent game was my Mech BA army (3 dakka Predators, 3 Baals, 4 Las/Plas Razorbacks) against GK Terminator spam (15 Terminators, mostly Halbards with 1 Hammer per squad, max psycannons, Grand Master, Librarian, 3 Psyrifleman Dreads). 1500 points, Spearhead, Capture and Control

So, my 10 Fast vehicles vs. 3 Dreads and 17 models. I thought I would table the guy, but he squeaked out a draw. The main thing I took away is that it is ridiculously hard to kill those stupid things, especially when he has a Librarian with Shrouding. I didn't have good luck with my Hood, but damn. So I'm not sure how big a deal the lack of Storm Shields is, when they can get 3+ cover fairly easily.

I also got one more data point suggesting that Heavy Bolter sponsons are useless, but that's another topic.

loota boy wrote:I am building a Draigo wing, It looks something like this at 2000pts.

Draigo

Libby w/MoT and shrouding

2X5 paladins w/2 psycannons and various weapons

10 paladins w/4 psycannons, banner, and various weapons, some mc.

2 Psyfleman dreads

It's pretty sweet, and only like $300 too, less if you get stuff online. The big mob can lay out about 35 unsaved wounds that instant death too. Be aware though that paladin armys are very vunerable to demo cannon russes, a lot more than vindicares, because the russ demo cannon can't be killed by psyflemans, and your only tank weapon that can kill it is the same range at it. You sort of have to deepstrike a squad in and hop they can kill it.

Also, I would not but apothecarys in your squads. Most things that will want to shoot at your paladins are instant deathing stuff that ignores fnp. And a ten-man paladin unit with wound allocation requires 180 bolter rounds to kill just one anyway, so the apothecary is way overkill. He's overpriced anyway though.

Thats what i was starting to think about the apothecaries due to 2 wound in terminator armour, maybe worth it on large squads

MrEconomics wrote:My most recent game was my Mech BA army (3 dakka Predators, 3 Baals, 4 Las/Plas Razorbacks) against GK Terminator spam (15 Terminators, mostly Halbards with 1 Hammer per squad, max psycannons, Grand Master, Librarian, 3 Psyrifleman Dreads). 1500 points, Spearhead, Capture and Control

So, my 10 Fast vehicles vs. 3 Dreads and 17 models. I thought I would table the guy, but he squeaked out a draw. The main thing I took away is that it is ridiculously hard to kill those stupid things, especially when he has a Librarian with Shrouding. I didn't have good luck with my Hood, but damn. So I'm not sure how big a deal the lack of Storm Shields is, when they can get 3+ cover fairly easily.

I also got one more data point suggesting that Heavy Bolter sponsons are useless, but that's another topic.

Did he use them as a big bog of 10 and 5 or as 3 different squads

Ans thanks everybody for your impute, it is very useful and appreciated

He took 2 squads, and combat squaded the 10 man.

Sadly I wish chaos termmies were worth the plastic they're made from.

You forgot Da Deffwing.

Mega-Armoured Warboss (possibly Ghazkhul)
Mad Dok Grotsnik

As many Meganobz as you can field, with Battlewagon or Trukk transports.

A mob of Gretchin for objective sitting, and to fill out the Troops requirement.

425 for the Gretch and the two HQs, if you're going with Ghazzy (and really, why wouldn't you?)

50 for each Meganob, with a Kombi-weapon and Cybork for the 5++, min of 3 per squad, so 150 per squad, min, plus Trukk w/ Ram, Red Paint, gubbins ~ 200 points per squad. Can take up to 4 with the warboss, so that's around 800 points for bare minimum, have 300 points to play with, going in to more Meganobz per squad.

Ghaz, Grotsnik, Grots, 2 mobz of 5 MANz and two mobz of 4 MANz in Trukks with the HQs. All for 1500 points.

Or you could drop a squad and go the Battlewagon route. Could probably get ~3 Battlewagons stuffed with Mega armour.


Pros:
What amounts to Paladins, with 2+/5++, 2W and all armed with twin-linked Shootas (basically twin-linked Storm Bolters) and PowerKlaws.
Fast, Open-topped transports
Able to Sweeping Advance
Come with Assault Grenades
Prophet of da Waaagh!!
One mob has Feel No Pain

Cons:
SnP out of their Transports
Gretchin are a weak link in Objective games
Only 2 scoring units
Very little differentiation for wound shenanigans
Few models

Spartan089 wrote:Sadly I wish chaos termmies were worth the plastic they're made from.

Termies are great, I field them in slightly larger units, (7+) and bring them in as support for units using an icon. The ability to place them in the action where you need them is very useful. Although the morale checks will sometimes get them, at least they have a high Ld.
Having said that I do agree that they are not as good as other choices in the codex, and do need an update, I just don't think they are useless.

Guaiwu wrote:

Spartan089 wrote:Sadly I wish chaos termmies were worth the plastic they're made from.

Termies are great, I field them in slightly larger units, (7+) and bring them in as support for units using an icon. The ability to place them in the action where you need them is very useful. Although the morale checks will sometimes get them, at least they have a high Ld.
Having said that I do agree that they are not as good as other choices in the codex, and do need an update, I just don't think they are useless.

However, it works out, if you think about a 10-man tac squad for 20 less points.
10 wounds --> 3+ armour = 3.3 wounds, 6.7 men left = 67%
10 wounds --> 2+ armour = 1.6 wounds, 3.4 termies left = 67(ish)%

This, combined with the fact that
Terminators have Storm Bolters and can thus put out the same if not greater VoF than a tac squad
and they also have a 5++ and Relentless
means that the price should be about the same, and it does indeed work out. It's simply the fact that they are not scoring and whether or not you like the allure of invincible veterans over GIs that makes a difference. IMHO they're fine the way they are, maybe they should be allowed to take more heavy weapons per squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry Guaiwu, just realized you were talking about Chaos termies. Point for loyalists still holds though

Sam__theRelentless wrote:

Guaiwu wrote:

Spartan089 wrote:Sadly I wish chaos termmies were worth the plastic they're made from.

Termies are great, I field them in slightly larger units, (7+) and bring them in as support for units using an icon. The ability to place them in the action where you need them is very useful. Although the morale checks will sometimes get them, at least they have a high Ld.
Having said that I do agree that they are not as good as other choices in the codex, and do need an update, I just don't think they are useless.

However, it works out, if you think about a 10-man tac squad for 20 less points.
10 wounds --> 3+ armour = 3.3 wounds, 6.7 men left = 67%
10 wounds --> 2+ armour = 1.6 wounds, 3.4 termies left = 67(ish)%

This, combined with the fact that
Terminators have Storm Bolters and can thus put out the same if not greater VoF than a tac squad
and they also have a 5++ and Relentless
means that the price should be about the same, and it does indeed work out. It's simply the fact that they are not scoring and whether or not you like the allure of invincible veterans over GIs that makes a difference. IMHO they're fine the way they are, maybe they should be allowed to take more heavy weapons per squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry Guaiwu, just realized you were talking about Chaos termies. Point for loyalists still holds though

Haha, was wondering where this was going. I would agree with you completely on loyalist termies, they don't need any updates. Chaos termies are actually cheaper and more flexible than their loyalist counterparts, it is really their morale and that they seem to have no synergy with other units within codex CSM. They can be useful, but they will never be a must take in their current form.

DA Deathwing.

1500pts:
3 Squads of Terminators
2 LRCS
Belial+Libby/Chappy Termy

-TH/SS+LCs on the LR squads
-TH/SS + CML on the DWA objective camper
- Belial and the second Terminator character ride with the LR squads
- You still have room for an apothecary and some other goodies to help with killyness and wound allocation benefits

Classic and Competitive

You forgot to mention Shrike for the vanilla SM. The only terminator army that can have fleet of foot.

Augustus wrote:

Njal the Weatherman wrote:( i personally love assault cannons since they can perform to the degree of cyclones if your lucky and can then turn into anti infantry and still hurt other tough enemies)

Cycones are ar superior to assault cannons. I have 3 terminator armies and all 3 run cyclones.

The storm bolter fires, and even with krack missiles that matches the 4 shots of the assault cannon, trading 2 points of strength on 4 shots (2 at 8 and 2 at 4) but doubling range for the heavy shots. They are way better.

Missiles are S8.

Missiles are 48 inch range.

Missiles can burst frag, 2 frags and a storm bolter do way more damage than an assault cannon, easily able to hit more than 4 packed targets.

Cyclones are way more versatile.

Oh also as a side note: Heavy Flamers should be free.

I run 2 varaints of the terminator list with Vanilla Marines:

(1)Kantor + 5/5/7

2 5 man squads with cyclones and a 7 man assault squad. Kantor doesn't really fight, he just rides in the redeemer in the middle of the formation with the assault terminators, the cyclone guys walk up the sides and fire as you deliver the assault terms. Everyone in 12 of the Reedemer gets +1 attacks, sweet, the assault terms then get 4 each on the charge!

(2)Lysander/Librarian 10/10

2 10 man term squads one with T Hammers the other as a double Cyclone. The key here is the librarians powers, he has Gate and Null Zone, this makes a terminator sqaud teleport around like mad. Lysander actualy runs with the big 10 man cyclone squad as his bolter drill twin links the whole thing, 20 twin linked BS4 shots of 2 foot move and fire pain with 4 krak missiles is awesome, and with Lysander it's a loosing proposition to assault its a real ram. In alternate set ups, I combat sqaud the cyclone terminators in 2 and then use the Librarian with Lysander to teleport the assault terminators. This is particualry nasty with scout bikes and a teleport homer for a serious rush, I have crushed entire armies like this! Scout bikes infiltrate AND scout, you drive the homing beacon to pretty much anywhere on the table just remember the Gate only goes 2 feet, so don't be too nutty!

Some general advice:

Terminator armies have the weakness of low model count and they can't always be everywhere, make use of NULLZONE if you can and be wary of power weapon units like banshees, incubi and the like, but generally otherwise play aggressively!

Best of luck!

Actually, assault cannons are statisticly better at killing AV 12, 13 & 14 vehicles, and they are the same at killing AV 10. They are also better at killing GEQ and about the same at killing MEQ. The advantage cyclones have over assault cannons is killing AV 11 and range, and they arn't even that much better at killing AV 11. And because they cost the same, I would say assault cannons are deffinantly a better buy, even though the cyclone launchers look fething awesome.

Chaos termies are nice because of how cheap and plentiful teleport icons are for chaos, and how cheap they can be.

Grey knight termies aren't bad persay, but you can't mix in thunder hammers/shields and they can't stack up missile launchers, they are sort of middle of the road, you can't manipulate reserves without your HQ's in play and no drop pod assault or deathwing assault or long range firepower makes them less desirable IMHO.