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When people post various GK lists, often ones featuring Paladins, Dreadknights, Stormravens, Vindicare and/or Venerable Dreadnoughts/Dreadnoughts in some profusion, it is sometimes the case that players of Space Fairies or Imperial Weaklings, amongst other forms of morally dubious life, make claims about how their list will table the proposed GK list without difficulty and often in minimal turns. While I realise there are ingherent drawbacks to high-value unit armies, I think some of the more sweeping claims are somewhat exaggerated.

So my idea here is to set out the maths showing how durable each of the sniffed at GK units actually is versus various AP1/AP2 S8+ fire.

This may also go some way to clearing up any trifling confusion that exists as to the relative worth of high value GK units.

Against characters, Dreadknights and infantry, everything wounds on a 2+ as they are all T6 maximum. So it’s the cover and invulnerable saves that make the difference, and of course Wounds for Draigo and Dreadknights.

Remember this is just about low AP S8+ (ie ID for Paladins and Vindicare) fire. It's already well established that it takes an insane amount of normal fire to damage Paladins. I will, however also consider S6 and S7 fire against the AV12 vehicles (and the added penetration of short range melta too, obviously).

Draigo: BS4 = 21.6 shots to kill.
BS3 = 28.8 shots to kill

Paladin: BS4 = 2.7 shots to kill (3.6 in cover, 5.4 if Shrouded in cover)
BS3 = 3.6 shots to kill (4.8 in cover, 7.2 if Shrouded in cover)

Vindicare: BS4 = 3.6 shots to kill (5.4 in cover, 10.8 if Shrouded in cover or in reinforced ruins)
BS3 = 4.8 shots to kill (7.2 in cover, 14.4 if Shrouded in cover or in reinforced ruins)

Remember though that unlike Paladins who can wound allocate and also get a 2+ save, a Vindicare is rather vulnerable to S7 and lower attacks at any AP.

Dreadknight: BS4 = 10.8 shots to kill (14.4 in cover)
BS3 = 14.4 shots to kill (19.2 in cover)

Vehicles are a bit trickier because Fortitude and Venerable come into play and also previous results are sometimes important. Also, AP1 does better than higher AP if it does penetrate. All the vehicles under consideration are AV12 though and all benefit from Fortitude so some things are common to all.

S6 glances 1/6 of the time.
S6 Rending penetrates 1/6 of the time
S7 glances 1/6 of the time, penetrates 1/6 of the time
S8 glances 1/6 of the time, penetrates 1/3 of the time
S9 glances 1/6 of the time, penetrates 1/2 of the time
S10 glances 1/6 of the time, penetrates 2/3 of the time.
Short range Melta glances 1/12 of the time, penetrates 5/6 of the time (the Strormraven is immune to this increased effect of course).

Now Fortitude has no real impact on as stuns and shaken really just affect shooting and manoeuvre capability not durability.. It’s weapon destroyed, immobilised and kills that count for this analysis. In most cases, 2 weapons destroyed will equal an immobilised and always 2 immobilised will equal a kill (except for the stormraven moving flat out where a single immobilised = killed). I’m going to count a weapon destroyed as 1/3 of a kill and an immobilised as ½ a kill. I think that’s fairly reasonable to keep the working simple.

So...

AP 2+ glance results in 5/36 kills.
AP 2+ penetration results in 17/36 kills

AP1 glance results in 11/36 kills
AP 1 penetration results in 23/36 kills

So...

An S6 hit results in 0.02 kills
An S6 rending hit results in 0.08 kills
An S7 hit results in 0.10 kills
An S8 hit results in 0.18 kills
An S9 hit results in 0.26 kills
An S10 hit results in 0.34 kills
An S10 AP1 hit results in 0.48 kills
A short-range melta hit results in 0.55 kills.

You have to divide those figures by 2/3 for BS4 and ½ for BS3. And another 2 if the vehicle is in cover (A stromraven benefitting from a 4+ flat out save will be a bit more likely to be killed of course as a single immobilised will destroy it in that instance).

The Venerable Dreadnought’s Venerable status allows him to re-roll any damage. In game terms that means he’ll reroll any kill (including second immobilisation becoming a kill) and also any immobilisation result on a glance.

In practical terms that means his glances result in 17/216, his penetrations 64/216.
Compare that to the ordinary Dreadnought’s 30/216 and 102/216. 60% more durable (actually less than the rougher figure of twice as durable I had calculated in other threads where I did not properly consider the effect of multiple immobilisations and kills.

Nonetheless at 195 points to 135 points, the venerable is only 44% more expensive. I shall consider his overall worth in greater depth below. But in terms of durability alone (ie as a fire magnet) he’s a steal compared to his ordinary brother.

So a quick example:

Space Fairy darklight. S8 AP2. Typically 30 are brought to the table. Of those 30, 20 will hit in any given turn (remember I considered shots versus the things with Wounds but only hits vs vehicles).

Assume the GK has universal cover, Shrouded for any Paladins (I don’t think that’s unreasonable for turn one shooting, except perhaps for Dreadknights). What can those much vaunted 30 dark lances kill?

Paladins: 4 kills (less if Draigo is present with the squad as he’d absorb at least a couple of the hits)
Vindicare: killed several times over, allowing other things to be targeted. The Vindicare can only be fielded if other turn one threats are present in the GK list)
Dreadknights: 1 killed, one reduced two wounds. If no cover, two will probably die.
Dreadnoughts: 1 destroyed: if no cover then 2(nearly – we can assume the second is basically reduced to no threat)
Stormravens: 2 destroyed (they can’t flat out turn one. Reserve them or lose them).
Venerable Dreadnoughts: one damaged. If no cover one killed.


Now none of that is very jolly. But if we consider that at 2000 points, Draigo. Librarian, 15 paladins, 3 venerable dreadnoughts is achievable, if the space fairies take no losses at all (very unlikely), it takes a turn to remove each paladin squad (assuming no Shrouding) and (generously assuming no cover) another three turns to remove the dreadnoughts and another turn to remove Draigo. So the low AP fire isn’t actually likely to table them. Of course other shooting will play a small role and melee too, but against that there’s the fact that the fairies will be taking casualties too. In a Kill Point game, I wouldn't bet on the fairy list.

To return briefly to the Venerable Dreadnought versus Dreadnought.

The Venerable is 58% tougher. But you can buy 1.44 dreadnoughts for every venerable.

A Venerable puts out 4 shots/turn, scoring 3.89 hits
A Dreadnought puts out 4 shots scoring 3.56 hits. Multiply that by 1.44 = 5.12. That’s 32% more efficient.

But the venerable lasts 58% longer.

The Venerable is the better buy if you can fit him in.

I enjoyed this post.

Venerables are amazing. And Draigo is the Emperor's Will made manifest.

I enjoyed the post too. I just shows how much people overestimate their AP1/AP2 weapons.