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Is it just me, or is Nurgle the most contradictory and needlessly complex Chaos god?

He represents despair and apathy, but appears jovial and selfless.

He represents humanity's drive to fight against inevitable death, but isn't powered by hope.

He represents decay, but all of his servants, from microbes to Plague Marines, are seeds of life.

It just doesn't makes sense. Slaanesh I get, because s/he's all about sensation, and humanity is one of the more hedonistic species out there. Khorne I understand, because war and honor are mostly human inventions, in both real life and in 40k. Tzeentch I sort of understand, because scheming and lust for power are understandable human behaviors.

But Nurgle?

I don't get it.

I don't really think he is all that contradictory.

Now, I cannot find anything to back up the claim that he represents apathy and despair, but assuming you were right, I still don't find that to be too out of whack. A lot of depressed people are very entertaining, jovial, and funny. Watch Big Steaming Pile of Me sometime. Then change your pants, since you probably laughed hard enough to pee yourself (I did). Then look up what happened to Richard Jeni.

People in pain and despair turn to Nurgle, which may be where you get that from, but it is not their pain and despair that he feeds off of. It is their suffering and dying. And in return for their fealty, for dying incrementally for him, he makes it to where you don't mind, hell, you enjoy it.

That may not make sense at first, but think about it. Everyone who sees you is going to see a monster. But not a monster of Warp mutation, oh no. You are a monster of flesh and blood, warped by rot and disease. And everyone of them knows, it could happen to them. Nurgle will take away your pain and fear, because you create more pain and fear by your very presence in his brood.

He does represent humanity's drive to fight against inevitable death, and isn't powered by hope. You're right. I worked with terminal patients when I worked at the hospital, and can honestly say many of them don't have a lot of hope. They keep fighting, because they don't know how to do anything else. Humanity doesn't fight against death because we hope we can live forever. It isn't a fight we can win. We fight because we are afraid to die. And that fear is what Nurgle feeds off of.

He does indeed represent decay, and many of his tools are seeds of life. Parasites and bacteria are indeed life-forms, but their continued existence (like that of his servants) comes at the expense of more life than they create. Far more. Nurgle represents the toxic, foul cancer which grows at the heart of a beautiful person. He is the patch of poison ivy in a bed of roses. He is the little voice in your head telling you not to shave today, since no one cares what you look like anyway. He is the logical progression of Chaos in its purest form, entropy. He is the decay of all things, living and dead.

Nurgle is perhaps the greatest of the Chaos gods, in my opinion. He's certainly the only one who seems to give a rat's kiester about his followers.

Hope this helps.

I guess that makes sense. It's a complex idea, though. And it's mostly the enormous difference between worshiper and worshiped that I find hard to comprehend. With the other gods, they ARE what feeds them. Khorne is rage incarnate, Tzeentch is pure ambition, and Slaanesh is hedonism and sensation. Nurgle is a jovial being of decay and entropy.

Jimsolo wrote:I don't really think he is all that contradictory.

Now, I cannot find anything to back up the claim that he represents apathy and despair, but assuming you were right, I still don't find that to be too out of whack. A lot of depressed people are very entertaining, jovial, and funny. Watch Big Steaming Pile of Me sometime. Then change your pants, since you probably laughed hard enough to pee yourself (I did). Then look up what happened to Richard Jeni.

People in pain and despair turn to Nurgle, which may be where you get that from, but it is not their pain and despair that he feeds off of. It is their suffering and dying. And in return for their fealty, for dying incrementally for him, he makes it to where you don't mind, hell, you enjoy it.

That may not make sense at first, but think about it. Everyone who sees you is going to see a monster. But not a monster of Warp mutation, oh no. You are a monster of flesh and blood, warped by rot and disease. And everyone of them knows, it could happen to them. Nurgle will take away your pain and fear, because you create more pain and fear by your very presence in his brood.

He does represent humanity's drive to fight against inevitable death, and isn't powered by hope. You're right. I worked with terminal patients when I worked at the hospital, and can honestly say many of them don't have a lot of hope. They keep fighting, because they don't know how to do anything else. Humanity doesn't fight against death because we hope we can live forever. It isn't a fight we can win. We fight because we are afraid to die. And that fear is what Nurgle feeds off of.

He does indeed represent decay, and many of his tools are seeds of life. Parasites and bacteria are indeed life-forms, but their continued existence (like that of his servants) comes at the expense of more life than they create. Far more. Nurgle represents the toxic, foul cancer which grows at the heart of a beautiful person. He is the patch of poison ivy in a bed of roses. He is the little voice in your head telling you not to shave today, since no one cares what you look like anyway. He is the logical progression of Chaos in its purest form, entropy. He is the decay of all things, living and dead.

Nurgle is perhaps the greatest of the Chaos gods, in my opinion. He's certainly the only one who seems to give a rat's kiester about his followers.

Hope this helps.

I don't think I've ever heard Nurgle described so well. Beautiful description

Tzeentch is not "pure ambition". Tzeentch is the Schemer, the Teller of Lies and the Weaver of Fate. "He" is the God of Magic, the Changer of the Ways, and the Lord of Change.

Many of his mortal followers turn to his service because *they* are ambitious, and see him and his gifts as a quick path to power, wealth and prestige... but these mortals are nothing, they are the merest pawns in great Tzeentch's game, and have, themselves, listened to the myriad of whispers from Tzeentch's many mouths, and heard what they wanted to hear... not necessarily what it was that Tzeentch *said*.

Tzeentch represents Chaos in its "purest" form, the ever-changing, never-ending ebb and flow of its powers, influence and effects. Tzeentch takes that what "is" and changes it into something different. Not necessarily better, or even efficient, or at all useful... but changed it has, and now the universe must deal with the ripples caused by that change. Maybe the change is insignificant, affecting only one or a handful of mortals... or maybe the change is so profound it affects the lives of billions, topples governments and social systems millennia old, and utterly alters the fate of the galaxy.

It's all the same to Tzeentch, because he knows that he wins in the end, for as long as the game is played.

Great description of Nurgle , probably the most correct. Tzeentch would be Chaos purest due to all Gods constantly changing , there is even a quote in the Chaos Daemons Codex.

"Don't you see? My master Tzeentch does not care which off the Great powers of Chaos you serve

In the end, aren't the followers of the Blood God turning valiant Warriors into headless corpses?
Aren't the Worshipers of the Lord of Flies changing strong, healthy bodies into rotting, diseased carcasses?
Aren't the disciples of the Dark Prince changing stern, steadfast heroes into slaves to their own senses?

Chaos is a struggle for change, must agree. Change rules all.

If you can't beat them, join them.

Nurgle is like a demented form of the mourning cycle. First is denial and then anger, you begin to hate everyone around you and blaming them. Then comes the bargaining and this is when nurgle comes with his promises. The next step is acceptance, you embrace and accept nurgle's gifts, becoming a full fledged fallower of decay.

The Chaos pantheon is very symmetrical. They (usually) have two lines of aggression, with two of them hating the other two. And they have two simple deities and two complex one. (Slaanesh and Khorne being the first, and Nurgle and Tzeentch the latter.) None of the four are bad, from a story aspect, but I like Nurgle the best. (Which is fairly obvious at this point, I think.) Not for his complexity, but because the only part of your sanity he takes is your perception of the hideous nature of your own rotting flesh prison. And he doesn't take away your powers because he suddenly feels the need to.

Jimsolo wrote:I don't really think he is all that contradictory.

Now, I cannot find anything to back up the claim that he represents apathy and despair, but assuming you were right, I still don't find that to be too out of whack. A lot of depressed people are very entertaining, jovial, and funny. Watch Big Steaming Pile of Me sometime. Then change your pants, since you probably laughed hard enough to pee yourself (I did). Then look up what happened to Richard Jeni.

People in pain and despair turn to Nurgle, which may be where you get that from, but it is not their pain and despair that he feeds off of. It is their suffering and dying. And in return for their fealty, for dying incrementally for him, he makes it to where you don't mind, hell, you enjoy it.

That may not make sense at first, but think about it. Everyone who sees you is going to see a monster. But not a monster of Warp mutation, oh no. You are a monster of flesh and blood, warped by rot and disease. And everyone of them knows, it could happen to them. Nurgle will take away your pain and fear, because you create more pain and fear by your very presence in his brood.

He does represent humanity's drive to fight against inevitable death, and isn't powered by hope. You're right. I worked with terminal patients when I worked at the hospital, and can honestly say many of them don't have a lot of hope. They keep fighting, because they don't know how to do anything else. Humanity doesn't fight against death because we hope we can live forever. It isn't a fight we can win. We fight because we are afraid to die. And that fear is what Nurgle feeds off of.

He does indeed represent decay, and many of his tools are seeds of life. Parasites and bacteria are indeed life-forms, but their continued existence (like that of his servants) comes at the expense of more life than they create. Far more. Nurgle represents the toxic, foul cancer which grows at the heart of a beautiful person. He is the patch of poison ivy in a bed of roses. He is the little voice in your head telling you not to shave today, since no one cares what you look like anyway. He is the logical progression of Chaos in its purest form, entropy. He is the decay of all things, living and dead.

Nurgle is perhaps the greatest of the Chaos gods, in my opinion. He's certainly the only one who seems to give a rat's kiester about his followers.

Hope this helps.

What a nice description. You know, I used to pretty much hate the guy before you explained this stuff. All I knew before was that he is the god of decay. So know I do not mind him. Don't like his followers though, they are disgusting.

No one is supposed to like them, that's kind of the point. (If it's any consolation, I don't play Chaos for that reason. I don't like his servants much either.) They probably don't even like each other. Nurgle lets them see their own infections in a positive light, not necessarily the malformations of their fellows. Most of them probably go around thinking 'Well, at least I'm not that guy. He's got maggots squirting out his nipples," giving Papa Nurgle not only some more of the revulsion and fear upon which he feeds, but a nice dash of irony to spice it up.

I always read it as Nurgle representing the fear of death rather than death itself, which is why he sends Typhus and plague zombies to kill people rather than just letting them die of their own accord.

Jimsolo wrote:No one is supposed to like them, that's kind of the point. (If it's any consolation, I don't play Chaos for that reason. I don't like his servants much either.) They probably don't even like each other. Nurgle lets them see their own infections in a positive light, not necessarily the malformations of their fellows. Most of them probably go around thinking 'Well, at least I'm not that guy. He's got maggots squirting out his nipples," giving Papa Nurgle not only some more of the revulsion and fear upon which he feeds, but a nice dash of irony to spice it up.

If I recall correctly, then the gods do not like each other. And I just like how Nurgle appears to actually care for his followers in some way.

Durza wrote:I always read it as Nurgle representing the fear of death rather than death itself, which is why he sends Typhus and plague zombies to kill people rather than just letting them die of their own accord.

IIRC Nurgle was about Despair... so yeah the fear of death works quite well.

From what I understand, Papa Nurgle wants all his children to embrace life, in all its forms, to the fullest.
His motivation for bringing us suffering is not malice. He just knows that never is a man more alive than when he is faced with his own mortality. For a healthy person, life just happens. But once sick and dying they develop a nearly psychotic need to live, they cling to life with all their might and cherish each moment because it could be their last, and Nurgle feeds off that intense motivation. He doesn't just want the living to live, which is why his creations are not instant killers like the life-eater virus used in Exterminatus bombarments, but agents of decay and mutation. Quite like Jigsaw from the Saw movies, Nurgle dangles you over the edge to test your desire to pull yourself up, cherishing your fear, for it means your life is yet precious to you. And he sincerely hopes that you will come to realize that it is not your suffering he desires, your suffering is merely how you may become enlightened, so you can love life as much as he does.
At least, like I said, that was always my interpretation of him.