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So, I've left the psychic safety of a craftworld, travelled the dark alleys of commoragh and am now starting my own sept! I basically wanted to share my initial thoughts on different units and options, give an example of an army list and get some feedback on whether i'm thinking the right way for playing a Tau army...

The reason I didn't put this in the army lists forum is because the list is a rough example, for now I mainly want to see if my logic is headed in the right direction.

Fire Warriors:
I love these guys! Fluff wise, I see tanks, Crisis suits etc as the support, fire warriors are the troops, the aspect of an army that has to hold positions and should be more readily available, so an army should have loads and loads of them with more exotic stuff just there to support. Game wise, I think they are a good unit. Shooting is above average range and strength, and low BS can be overcome with markerlights and large units to take advantage. I think their lack of CC ability can work in your favour, as smaller units can garuantee to be wiped on the enemies assault phase, meaning your CC specialist just murdered 60 points of unit to stand in front of the rest of my high strength guns. great!

Pathfinders:
An amazing support unit on paper, who else can strip away cover so the high AP guns can do their business without hassle! The only worry I have is still the low BS, which means statistically only half the markerlights should hit... once I play I will get a feel for if these guys make up their points or just fall short. The compulsory transport is fine, as I can use it for the fire warrior teams I would have bought one for anyway.

Broadsides:
Love them. Having played a lot of fire dragons/scourges, the thought of being able to destroy a land raider from accross the board makes me giddy!

Hammerhead:
In my opinion, the cost of the railgun really doesn't justify itself! We have the solid shot from the broadsides, and although the large blast would be useful against hordes, if i'm basically spamming fire warriors I really don't need too much extra. At less than a 3rd the price, I can have a gun that is still a very good range, can still threaten transports, and will give any MEQ unit a really bad day!

Crisis suits:
I see them as long range, high strength support, with something good for close range in case the enemy closes, possibly flamers.

So on to the list!

HQ
Shas'o
Shield generator, TL missile pod, plasma rifle
Drone controller, 2 shield drones, Multi tracker 168

Shas'o for the great BS, Drones to keep him alive, should he split from the crisis team, multi tracker to get to use all his toys.

ELITES
XV8 x3
1-Leader, Targetting Array, Missile pod, Plasma rifle, Multi tracker
2-TL flamer, TL missile pod, Targetting array
3-TL flamer, Plasma rifle, Targetting array 197

So BS4 all round, leader can fire two weapons at medium/long range, the other two can fire one each then use flamers with re-rolls if necessary. I've kept them differently equipped for wound allocation.

TROOPS
12 Fire Warriors, Shas'ui, bonding knife 135
12 Fire Warriors, Shas'ui, Bonding knife 135

The static home objective troops. Large units mean a) they are harder to take down and b)they can use markerlights efficiently. Bonding knife means they can regroup even if they take heavy firepower.

8 Fire Warriors 80
6 Fire Warriors 60

The charge absorbers. no upgrades to make them cheap rifles, and not so much of a loss should they be killed. small enough units mean they will die easily to CC. Also extra scoring units to jump in the Pathfinders fish if the situation calls for it.


FAST ATTACK
6 Pathfinders 72
Devilfish, Target Lock, Target Array, Flechette Discharger, Disruption Pod, Seeker Missile 115

6 Pathfinders 72
Devilfish, Target Lock, Target Array, Flechette Discharger, Disruption Pod, Seeker Missile 115

Loads of long range support. I have seeker missiles, should i need them, I want the devilfish as survivable as possible. Also no upgrades on the pathfinders themselves, they are support so keeping them cheap means more guns for them to actually support!


HEAVY SUPPORT (the fun bit)
XV88 x2, Targetting Array x2
Leader, Target Lock, Multi tracker 175

Pretty standard, again as few upgrades as possible to maximise efficiency (can you tell i used to play eldar ) They can both shoot at different targets, at a decent BS, and the leader can fire both weapons if he needs to. I know twin linked probably makes the BS thing a little redundant, but i need to be sure these guys are smashing things right from the start, and as much as possible!


Hammerhead, Ion cannon, Gun drones, Disruption Pod, Multi Tracker, Seeker Missile 150

Ion cannon to save some points, Gun drones on all my vehicles as more bubble wrap for squishy Fire warriors. Cover save for survivability, multi tracker for manouverability.

TOTAL 1474


Some help to get me started towards the prosperity of the greater good would be much appreciated!

Old Shatterhands's 5-part guide to beginning Tau is the best source I know for new Tau players:

http://tauofwar.blogspot.com/2009/10/joining-tau-empire-beginners-guide-part.html

I suggest read through all five parts before you buy any more models. Based on your list so far, I think you might be disappointed with the way you're expecting some units to work.

Okay, it seems that you have fallen into the vice many new Tau players fall into, how to equip your crisis suits.

There are a few fundamental rules for crisis suits:
1. Don't give them loads of equipment.
2. In general it is best to give them 2 weapons with a multi-tracker
3. Give all crisis suits in the same unit the same weapon-loadout
4. Never take shield generators, but if you must, take shield drones.

5. Check out the link in my sig for good configurations

Also, most of your crisis suits are illegal. Crisis suits must use 3 hard-points, no more, no less. Any weapon counts as 1, a TL weapon counts as 2, and any wargear counts as 1.

On the rest of your list:

I think you like fire-warriors too much, having 2 full units is enough at this points level, I'd get rid of the 2 smaller units. I'd also get rid of the shas'ui with bk.

Pathfinders are fine.

I'd equip their devilfish like this:
SMS/TA/MT/DPs

Also, let your 2 large fire warrior units use the pathfinder's devilfish. Your pathfinders shouldn't be moving at all.

Get rid of the multi-tracker on your XV88, why would you fire SMS at a tank???

Hammerheads should only come with railguns. Ion cannons don't really justify the points you are putting into the HH... and submunission rounds are really awesome. Gun drones are terrible, get burst cannons instead for your hammerhead. Also, get rid of the seeker missile and give it a target lock.

I probably missed a lot in my assessment...
I haven't included many reasons why you should do things another way (because it takes forever) so if you want me to elaborate on anything, just tell me.



I'd suggest a list like this:


Fireknife Commander ('el) - 87 points
(PR/MP/MT)

Helios Team (3) - 186
(PR/FB/MT)

Firestorm Team (3) - 150
(BC/MP/MT)

Fireknife Team (3) - 186
(PR/MP/MT)

Fire Warrior Team (11) - 110

Fire Warrior Team (11) - 110

Pathfinders (4) - 168
Devilfish (SMS/TA/MT/DP)

Pathfinders (4) - 168
Devilfish (SMS/TA/MT/DP)

Broadside Team (2) - 170
(2x A.S.S./Team Leader w/ TL)

Railhead - 160
(BC/MT/DP/TL)


Total - 1495

Yeah, your list would have been just fine when the current codex was released, but not so much anymore.

Firewarriors are super fragile, they die in buckets and are generally not going to come close to making back their points, they will only exist to die really.

Pathfinders do look nice on paper, unfortunately they don't perform nearly as well as they look. The problem isn't so much the unit (IMO) as it is the competition, most even minorly experienced or knowledgeable opponents will know to eliminate the unit first, which lets face it isn't a terribly difficult thing to do.

Broadsides are a pretty decent unit, prefer them to Hammerheads which never seem to hit the enemy at all, however, you need multiple units for them to truly be effective, depending on terrain setup, having just one unit can very easily mean you have nothing to shoot at because your opponent is playing the terrain against you.

Hammerheads, like you said, might as well take Ion Cannons. Not that the Railgun option is useless, just that its not as effective as a couple broadsides.

Crisis Suits are the main punch in any Tau army nowadays. Really, everything else exists to support them. First, looking at your list (its been a while since I played Tau) it seems your loadout is illegal. You're allowed a total of three options, twin linking counts as two, so you can get one more weapon system on there... You can't have 2 sets of twin linked weapons, nor can you have a twin linked weapon, plus another weapon, plus a support system. The only way around that is with shas'vre and higher that can gain access to the armory.

As for loadouts, I don't play the wound allocation game, and in a unit like Crisis Suits, its actually a bit difficult to do. Those mixed units are going to do you absolutely no good. Personally (and I'm a bit of a heretic for this) I prefer my squad armed with twin-linked plasma or twin-linked missiles throughout. I don't like mixing weapons on a model or squad basis. Its not necessarily an optimal configuration for the unit, but in my experience its easier to use, as your missiles are for killing light vehicles and high toughness units, while your plasma is there to kill marines/high armor save units. It also works out as being cheaper, since I dont have to bother with targetting arrays, and I still have the option to shield my units if the points allow.

A lot of people like the missile/fusion combo, which is actually pretty good, as it allows you to tackle most vehicles at a variety of ranges, but it still packs a mean punch versus infantry and monstrous creatures. Crisis Suits are especially useful for fusion blaster purposes, I've never much bothered with them myself, but thats because I have a ton of piranhas available to me, and my meta doesn't go completely mech for friendly games anyway.

Ah thanks for your help- I must have overlooked the part about TL weapons being 2 hard points. I still feel like FW are a cheap way to get a lot of above average guns, but I will rethink my list a bit.

Are two scoring units really enough at 1500 in the objective rich environment though?

If you stick those units in pathfinder devilfishes, and play them conservatively, yes, they can be used similarly to DAVU in an eldar list. The rest of your list will have to be used to deny the enemy his own objectives though.

Best lists that i have seen have had 72 fire warriors and as many suites as possible. The amount of shooting that they can muster is rediculous.

sennacherib wrote:Best lists that i have seen have had 72 fire warriors and as many suites as possible. The amount of shooting that they can muster is rediculous.

Well the 'as many suits as possible' bit is solid, but 72 Fire Warriors should never be used unless its something like a 3000pt game, its a big chunk of points and there way better choices in every slot (take more Crisis suits, more Piranhas, more Broadsides). They put out decent firepower (well aside from the fact they do nothing to 90% of vehicles) but they also die and break incredibly quickly and there is just no way to get around this. A single assault unit in a vehicle could roll all those Fire Warriors up by itself. Beyond the 1-2 units of FW you take to sit in Devilfish to act as scoring units Kroot are actually a much better choice for more troops. Their statline is clearly superior, they are cheaper (particularly the hounds) so cover ground to bubblewrap and block movement better, can infiltrate so are easy to place in a good bubblewrapping location without disrupting your deployment and for this they lose out slightly in shooting ability (which wasn't amazing to start with), armour save (which makes no difference when they sit in cover like they are supposed to) and the ability to take a Devilfish (which you can and should steal off Pathfinders anyway).

The key for Tau is the ability to keep firing every turn with as much as possible, and preserving your main sources of firepower as long as possible. In practice this means multiple layers of bubble wrap and blocking units (Piranahs, Drones, Kroot, Devilfish, less important suits, in that order) to keep your suits firing. Pretty much everything is absolutely terrible in combat, so its more than likely going to break/die in a single round so you can keep shooting. This isn't exactly the most exciting tactic in the world but its hard to do well, but its one of the few things which work properly for Tau (which is why not many people play Tau atm basically, not much works and what does work is a very tough methodical repetitive strategy).

Just to add to The Bringer's list of Crisis suit rules since I don't have time to write a full on strategy for Tau;
Never give them short range weapons as their main armament - range is your friend. You never want to be close enough to use a flamer (flamers = assault range and assault = dead Tau) and Piranhas are far better places to put Fusion Blasters because they are mobile and can't get tied up in assault because they are vehicles.
As mentioned, take the same weapons loadout within each unit - with the possible exception of team leaders with Target Locks (shooting more targets is always a good thing)

Some great points so far that you should really take on board. Obviously a lot of them are based on being as competitive as possible (actually, our competitive list is just what works semi-effectively)

It also depends on your local area too. I play against SM (mostly vanilla), 'Crons and Dark Eldar a lot.

Space Marines I can own nearly every game. I don't find them a struggle really. I castle up for a turn or two, try to create a weak area in their force and then attack with every mobile thing I have. It catches people off guard as they don't expect a Tau player to be so aggressive but when 6/9 Crisis suits, a Hammerhead (or two) plus whatever else you have comes strolling up they soon realise not to spread their forces out. Dark Eldar are very hard for us to beat IF...IF...the rolls go their way. I've played games before in which the chap passed 4 or 5 Flickerfield saves of 5+ in ONE turn. That really puts the hurt on us.

Kroot - you cannot have enough of these guys. I LOVE them. They regularly out perform my Firewarriors on a point vs point level and are generally perceived as a bigger threat than my FW. You can outflank which always gives your opponent something else to worry about or you can infiltrate them and use them as bait. I use 2 squads of 10 Kroot and 5 Hounds at 1500 and would never leave home without them!

Piranha - Only just started using these. In fact just 4 games with them BUT they've had some great success. Mostly taking out Dreadnoughts! They are surprisingly tough to take down and forces your opponent to REACT. Which is something we don't do that well, we are normally playing a REACTIVE game.

They are tough to use but I can't think of a more satisfying feeling when you beat a new Codex with them!

gr1m_dan wrote:
Kroot - you cannot have enough of these guys. I LOVE them. They regularly out perform my Firewarriors on a point vs point level and are generally perceived as a bigger threat than my FW. You can outflank which always gives your opponent something else to worry about or you can infiltrate them and use them as bait. I use 2 squads of 10 Kroot and 5 Hounds at 1500 and would never leave home without them!

Kroot are something you have to commit to, which is why many Tau players don't care for them. A 10-12 man Kroot squad will die horribly. A 16-20 man squad, or better 2-3 starts to get interesting. You have enough numbers at that point to sponge off a lot of wounds and slap down a ton of attacks in close combat. I've done 4 20 man kroot squads, and without great roles on my side or bad roles on my opponents side and basically beat tyranids at the horde/cc game. It just requires a large point and model investment, plus a willingness to use them as completely expendable units. Having Trees around to hide in will take them from merely okay units to absolutely amazing.

I've heard a few strategies regarding kroot - most players want the kroot to die in a single round of assault (they get assaulted, they die) so that they get another round of shooting on the assaulters. That would be the bubble wrap/castling strategy that was mentioned above.

For crisis suits, there is a posting further down that discusses various suit loadouts - its mathhammer, but very informative for a new player.

Devilfish are almost a "must" for your firewarriors - indeed, fully mechanized lists seem to be fairly popular. Keep in mind, though, that your mileage will vary based on the armies that you play regularly.

Personally, I prefer hammerheads over broadsides purely for the mobility and also for the fact that disruption pods are a 4+ cover save for vehicles over 12" away. Some people prefer broadsides - I suspect that it boils down to more personal preference and the kind of army you prefer to play. If you do go broadsides, though, take two units of them - they can be hard to reposition (they don't have the jet packs) and that way you're covering all firing lanes.

You will want at least 9 crisis suit teams. If you have the points, you would want to fill out your bodyguard, but at 1500 points you'll just want your leader and 3 full teams. Kit out the squads differently, but each suit in any given squad should be kitted out identically. The invulnerable save is expensive, so I would skip it on the suits themselves - rely on jumping out, firing and then jumping back under cover for cover saves.

If you're playing a highly mobile tau force (i.e. using SMS and multitracker on the devilfish, also known as a warfish) then you'll probably want to skip the kroot. If you're playing gunlines/castling, then you'll want lots of kroot and/or gun drones from various sources. 10-15 kroot is a pretty good number - maybe 10 kroot and 5 hounds, so you get some licks in, take the casualties from the hounds after they hit and get the most out of your kroot themselves. Don't forget - you don't want to stick around in combat though, because that increases chances that your opponent will finish off that squad in your assault phase and then get to assault you immediately - you want to shoot them after they assault and wipe out whatever they assaulted!

About markerlights, you can get a lot of them, but unless you're loading up on pathfinders, your only sources are going to be a skyray, markerlight drones or markerlights on squad leaders. Since markerlights are heavy 1, you can't move and fire on infantry (I have no idea if this applies to the drones though). Additionally, the only way to get the markerlight bonus for a squad with markerlights is to use the drone.

Hope this helps some!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and you don't want ion cannons on your hammerheads (assuming you take hammerheads). Go with the railgun always. A fully kitted out hammerhead clocks in at 185, and thats with railgun, SMS, multitracker, target lock, disruption pod and decoy launchers for about as much survivability as possible (a lot of it is probably excessive though).

Actually 72 fire warrirors comes to something like 864 pts. Its only half of a normal tourni list. I have faced this list in a tourni where i was playing 4th ed NIds. my list rolled everyone except the tau player. I made it NO where near his army. likewise... we have a really jovial tau player at our local shop who has shot to pieces many good players with this very same list. the amount of fire power that can be mustered is staggering. any good tau army should be able to destroy most transports before they can cross the field, anyone outside of a transport takes a blizzard of str 5 hits.

another list i have seen do well was one where just about everything in the army had those darn missiles that need no line of sight. given that this list does exceptionally well when commited to a table with a few buildings or hills, its something to consider.

Just a few comments:
1. I always prefer to take 'Fireknife' Crisis Suits - Plasma Rifle + Missile Pod + Multitracker. It's sort of a 'jack of all trades, master of none' unit that can engage any enemy except AV13+ (that's what railguns are for).
2. I mix Hammerheads and Broadsides, usually taking two Broadsides in one squad and then two Hammerheads. I take Railguns on the Hammerheads almost exclusively; you have Missile Pods for Str. 7.
3. Fire Warriors look good on paper, but they inexplicably fail to perform in most scenarios. I've never been able to figure out why that is though. I tend to load them in transports and use them to either rapid fire weakened enemies or just keep them out of the fight to hold objectives/deny Killpoints.
4. I'm a fan of the Cyclic Ion Blaster for the Commander Suit, but I'm weird in that regard so YMMV.

Maniac_nmt wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:
Kroot - you cannot have enough of these guys. I LOVE them. They regularly out perform my Firewarriors on a point vs point level and are generally perceived as a bigger threat than my FW. You can outflank which always gives your opponent something else to worry about or you can infiltrate them and use them as bait. I use 2 squads of 10 Kroot and 5 Hounds at 1500 and would never leave home without them!

Kroot are something you have to commit to, which is why many Tau players don't care for them. A 10-12 man Kroot squad will die horribly. A 16-20 man squad, or better 2-3 starts to get interesting. You have enough numbers at that point to sponge off a lot of wounds and slap down a ton of attacks in close combat. I've done 4 20 man kroot squads, and without great roles on my side or bad roles on my opponents side and basically beat tyranids at the horde/cc game. It just requires a large point and model investment, plus a willingness to use them as completely expendable units. Having Trees around to hide in will take them from merely okay units to absolutely amazing.

That's the whole point of them...let them either

a) Get shot up - it's another thing not shooting at your other important units.

b) Die in CC after BEING assaulted - leaves your opponent exposed and vulnerable.

c) If you are confident you can assault, win and be in some sort of cover. I've flanked/assaulted/won so many times against back field heavy teams like Devs, IG Heavy Weaps etc. They are normally in cover and you normally have a good chance of winning or tying them up for a round or two.

For battlesuits i like bladestorm (MP/BC/MT).They are better att GEQ and termies with shields, but sligtly worse att MEQ and normal TEQ then fireknife. They are also cheaper. They cant take vehicles, but thats what twin-missile crisis and broadsides are for. Massed firewarriors can be useful but i usaly use two squads of six, riding in pathfinder fishes and some Kroots to hold objectives.

Mr Tau has it spot on.

Exactly my tactics I'm using at the moment.

I'm really liking the Bladestorm at the moment and it's doing pretty well for me. Although I have also tried BC/PR/MT - that's quite painful during the later stages of the game.