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Hi Dakka,

The time has come that I must cross over from the 5th dimension to the mortal plane and roll a character for our DnD group while another of our PCs takes his turn to reside in the 5th and lawyer our asses...

What I would like to request is possible melee combos (race/class).

Your suggestions are all welcome here.

I have played a Razoclaw Shifter Druid, and would happily lean back towards this, however, I am open to other suggestions.

All I require is the following in your suggestions:

Name:

Race:

Class:

Lvl 1 stats/feat/ability/skills.

Anything else you wish to add would be most welcome and appreciated

Dwarf barbarian. Bar brawl your way to victory!

Lexx wrote:Dwarf barbarian. Bar brawl your way to victory!

Any preferred feats/abilities or skills?

What edition of the game are you playing?

AvatarForm wrote:

Lexx wrote:Dwarf barbarian. Bar brawl your way to victory!

Any preferred feats/abilities or skills?

Power attack, or Monkey Grip, that is of course that your DM will let you have access to splat books.

IMHO, I always thought the Drunken Master was better for tavern brawling.

4th Ed, just like the epic Epic thread.

For a bar brawler I['d say go Arena Fighter and multiclass MNK to get access to Ki focus's (as well as flurry and an extra skill). Don't carry hardly any weapons becuase you can now make improved improvised weapon attacks using your Ki Focus. See that chair over there? It's now a +2 Chair. Go smash someone with it.

If the improved damage die of Arena fighter isn't that important you can go barbarian and multiclass Monk then take the Hurler Feat and now the Chair is a +2 Chair with the Heavy Thrown property, but does 1d4 damage instead of 1d8.

If they ever add Arena fighter to the Hybrid Feat list you can make Hybrid Fighter/Barbarian multiclass Monk that turns everything he touches into a 1d8/1d10 heavy thrown weapon. Start throwing tables across the pub for fun and profit.

Ahtman wrote:For a bar brawler I['d say go Arena Fighter and multiclass MNK to get access to Ki focus's (as well as flurry and an extra skill). Don't carry hardly any weapons becuase you can now make improved improvised weapon attacks using your Ki Focus. See that chair over there? It's now a +2 Chair. Go smash someone with it.

If the improved damage die of Arena fighter isn't that important you can go barbarian and multiclass Monk then take the Hurler Feat and now the Chair is a +2 Chair with the Heavy Thrown property, but does 1d4 damage instead of 1d8.

If they ever add Arena fighter to the Hybrid Feat list you can make Hybrid Fighter/Barbarian multiclass Monk that turns everything he touches into a 1d8/1d10 heavy thrown weapon. Start throwing tables across the pub for fun and profit.

While this sounds awesome, Im not sure we will be allowed to multi-class

Well what kind of role are you wanting to play this time around? The new Blackguard has a lot of options, combining striker type stuff as well as being able to pull from Paladin feats and powers as well. The Vampire is also a blast to role play and isn't to much of a slouch in combat.

Just pick a race and class you like and quit worrying about maxing your abilities / feats / etc.

Ahtman wrote:Well what kind of role are you wanting to play this time around? The new Blackguard has a lot of options, combining striker type stuff as well as being able to pull from Paladin feats and powers as well. The Vampire is also a blast to role play and isn't to much of a slouch in combat.

Which source book are those in?

snurl wrote:Just pick a race and class you like and quit worrying about maxing your abilities / feats / etc.

I would love to, except the new DM is old hat and likes to make individual challenges a Death or Glory situation and I need to be able to handle myself, without the aid of the party.

AvatarForm wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Well what kind of role are you wanting to play this time around? The new Blackguard has a lot of options, combining striker type stuff as well as being able to pull from Paladin feats and powers as well. The Vampire is also a blast to role play and isn't to much of a slouch in combat.

Heroes of Shadow

Just recently got a chance to try out the Vampire class (Revenant Warforged Vampire to be precise) and it was tons of fun. They only get 2 healing surges regardless of CON score but unless they are hit with radiant damage or are taken into negative hit points equal to their bloody value they will get right back up at the beginning of their turn thanks to regeneration. They can also take healing surges from monsters and PCs to keep their surges stocked up, but they also burn surges to boost powers.

Ahtman wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Well what kind of role are you wanting to play this time around? The new Blackguard has a lot of options, combining striker type stuff as well as being able to pull from Paladin feats and powers as well. The Vampire is also a blast to role play and isn't to much of a slouch in combat.

Heroes of Shadow

Just recently got a chance to try out the Vampire class (Revenant Warforged Vampire to be precise) and it was tons of fun. They only get 2 healing surges regardless of CON score but unless they are hit with radiant damage or are taken into negative hit points equal to their bloody value they will get right back up at the beginning of their turn thanks to regeneration. They can also take healing surges from monsters and PCs to keep their surges stocked up, but they also burn surges to boost powers.

Sounds interesting, though now I think of it, we have a Paladin and Cleric in our group... it would need to be a GW'esque justification written by Mat Ward to get a Dark Alligned PC into the group...

I just picked up Complete Scoundrel and think Im gonna play a dashing rogue of sorts... with absolutely no moral compass, within reason so I dont lose my head to the paladin

Well my warforged wandered around in robes with a quarterstaff passing himself off as a sorcerer. I had told the DM beforehand I was playing a vamp in secret so I was able to fudge the names of some of his abilities a bit. For example, instead of Vampiric Slam I called it Thunder Slam. Only the guy playing the Runepriest figured it out and that was near the end of the adventure. Not as optimizable as some other strikers, but just lots of roleplaying fun.

If there are certain races you like I could make a quick write up with suggestions and feats.

Ahtman wrote:Well my warforged wandered around in robes with a quarterstaff passing himself off as a sorcerer. I had told the DM beforehand I was playing a vamp in secret so I was able to fudge the names of some of his abilities a bit. For example, instead of Vampiric Slam I called it Thunder Slam. Only the guy playing the Runepriest figured it out and that was near the end of the adventure. Not as optimizable as some other strikers, but just lots of roleplaying fun.

If there are certain races you like I could make a quick write up with suggestions and feats.

That's the problem (and point of this thread), I have only ever played classic PCs and what the group needed.

I was thinking Swordmage this morning...

The mechanics usually come second to me as I usually have a backstory and fluff and then choose a PC to match if I can swing it.

I want to be the bastard son of a local noble who acts as his agent, however, has a reputation as a drunk and womaniser...

AvatarForm wrote:I want to be the bastard son of a local noble who acts as his agent, however, has a reputation as a drunk and womaniser...

Do you by any chance read novels by Raymond E. Feist?
This is almost an exact copy of the back story for one of my favourite characters....


On Topic, i cant help im afraid, sorry

Revenent Reiko wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:I want to be the bastard son of a local noble who acts as his agent, however, has a reputation as a drunk and womaniser...

Do you by any chance read novels by Raymond E. Feist?
This is almost an exact copy of the back story for one of my favourite characters....


On Topic, i cant help im afraid, sorry

Yes I do...

Do you refer to Rupert/Roo or one of the later novels? Im only just past Rides a Dread Legion and have yet to read the newest.

On Topic: i have planned some other shenanigans for the party, though will soon be handing over the reins and becoming a PC myself... in which case, I hope the others do not read this thread...

I havent read Rides a Dread Legion yet, i meant its pretty much the backstory for James (not Jimmy), except the bastard son part of course.

Although i do like Roo as well.

For the bar room brawler style that was talker about earlier:

Race: Dwarf

Class: Fighter - Brawler style (Martial Power 2)
Goes well with both Combat Superiority and Agility

Background: Auspicious birth so instead of Con, you'd use Str for your HP.

Ability scores:
Str: 18
Con: 15 (after racial)
Dex: 13
Int: 10
Wis: 12 (after racial)
Cha: 8

Hit points at first level: 33

Skills - trained:
Athletics
Endurance
Heal

Feat:
Brawlers guard - acts as light shield

Powers:
At-wills:
Grappling strike
Slash and Pummel

Encounter:
Takedown Attack

Daily:
Seize and stab

Equipment:
Scale Armor(E)
Longsword (E main-hand)
spiked gauntlet (E off-hand)
Adventurers Kit
Climers Kit
Tent

The theme is simple, walk up too people, grab them, and don't let go. Works best if you already have a defender because you basically single out a guy and immobilize him via grappling till he is dead. Or, grab him, and wail on an adjacent enemy, so that one is marked, and one is grabbed, both up for some sneak attack from a rogue. Rawr. Also, RP wise, an explination for the low Cha is the fact that your the local drunk, and therefore not really well liked, especially as you start nearly all the brawls.

Swordmage idea.

VERY EASY, this one. I can get a swordmage with as much or more AC then pallies very easily.

Race: Human

Class: Swordmage - shielding agis

Background: Scorned Noble. You get a +2 to saving throws when there are no allies with in 5 squares (25 feet) of you, so if you have too go solo a lot this is very useful.

Ability score:
Str: 10
Con: 13
Dex: 10
Int: 20 (after racial improvement)
Wis: 10
Cha: 11

Hit points at first level: 28

Trained skills:
Arcana (obviously)
Athletics
Diplomacy
Insight
Endurance

Feats:
White Lotus Defense: You gain a +1 bonus too your defenses when you hit with your arcane at will powers.
Mounted Combat: As a nobles son (even if a bastard) you'll eventually be able to get access to your fathers stables.

Powers:
at-wills
Booming Blade
Lightning Lure
swordburst

Encounter
Sword of Sigils

Daily
Warding Florish

Equipment:
Leather armor (E)
Longsword (E-main hand)
Off-hand: Empty for full bonus of swordmage warding
Adventurers kit
Climers kit
Tent
Identification Papers with Portrait to prove your lineage (and abuse it RP wise)

Theme: drawing enemies too you and keeping them next too you. The feat gives you a bonus too your defenses when your down to using your at-wills, you still have some spare money for buying yourself drink and "friends with benefits" *cough cough*

If you need more characters "built" out for an idea of what your wanting, just give us all a yell.

Where are the background rules from? Are the from the Dark Sun books?

I'd want to make sure the GM is ok with them before using them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Where are the background rules from? Are the from the Dark Sun books?

I'd want to make sure the GM is ok with them before using them.

Where to start? Brawler has a secondary stat of DEX, not CON so you should be at minimum 18 STR and 16 DEX. Almost all the Brawler powers are "you hit and X is modified by your DEX". The level 1 Brawler power is that you grab it, put the target to any square adjacent to you, and as long as it is grabbed it takes a penalty to it rolls equal to your DEX modifier. This is even more useful if using a heavy blade, as fighter powers that use heavy blade use DEX as their modifier.

Spike gauntlet is a bit of a trap. If you enchant it it counts as your hands slot for magic items meaning you have to give up a magic item slot to get a slight bit more damage over unarmed. You also aren't a striker so the slight increase in damage isn't needed, especially considering what you give up.

Slash and Pummel is a bit of a trick as well. It is a poor mans Twin Strike (Ranger at-will). You get 1.5 attacks against a single target essentially. Still, you are only attacking one target and doing so-so damage because, again, not a striker. If you have to have something that attacks more than once take Dual Strike so you can mark two targets or raging Rush to mark all adjacent enemies. I like Knockdown Assault myself. Doesn't do a lot of damage but it knocks enemies prone. The reason I like it for Brawler is that it fits the theme, so to speak, as essentially you are pulling a Red Foreman. You go up to the enemy and just put a foot in his ass. This can be combo'd later with a feat where if you grab an enemy that is prone they can't get up or move until they break your grab.

We could combine the two ideas and make a nobleman's son that spent some time in a military academy but didn't like it and now just wanders from bar to bar picking up chicks and getting into fights and throwing his lot in with adventures for fame and glory (and maybe to help others).

Well go Human and take Heroic Effort over the additional At-Will. If you are allowed to take the playtest themes, take the nobleman theme, it is somewhere online. Anyway, we'll give him elven as a secondary language because it seems like the kind of language an educated lad would have been taught. Next take the Con Man (you are a bit of a cad now aren't you) background. You also should take the Noble Scion and other backgrounds that fit but you only get one background benefit and this opens up Bluff as a choice fighter doesn't normally get and gives a bonus to it. There may be others that can give the same benefit.

For ability scores the +2 will go into STR and end up looking like this

STR 18
CON 11
DEX 16
INT 10
WIS 8 (he's essentially a college drop who likes to party, not the wisest choice)
CHA 13

For Skills grab the following:
Athletics
Bluff
Streetwise
Thievery or Endurance
Diplomacy (multiclass, see below)
At-Will
- Grappling Strike
- Knockdown Assault

Encounter
- Bash and Pinion

Daily
- Villains Menace

For feats the following:
- Heavy Blade Expertise (or Master-At-Arms - you have a free hand, you might pick up another weapon and would get a +1 with all weapons but lose the +2 to AC against op attacks)
- Bardic Dillatante (get a daily heal by motivating an ally but also give training in Diplomacy as well as access to Bard Feats. You tell stories and woo the ladies)

Is it optimized? No. Will it get the job done, you bet. Is it flavorful? Why it is bursting with flavor. If you have a starting level I can work something up. This is a quick throw together, if I work on it for a bit I can probably get some better numbers out of the skills.

I'm also confused by the los CON on the shielding Swordmage. Shielding Swordmage reduces damage by 5+ CON, and it barely has any CON.

I'm also confused by the los CON on the shielding Swordmage. Shielding Swordmage reduces damage by 5+ CON, and it barely has any CON.

The shielding swordmage leads to a paragon path that increases the effectiveness of your swordmage warding, and at first - fourth level your not really being hit all that hard unless the DM is using player-slayer dice and critting 50% of the time.



The way I use brawling fighters is sorta controller secondary. I grab a single opponent, and spread my damage around, marking as many as I can in a single round, not including the grabbed guy. The con secondary allows me, because I grabbed endurance, to gain temporary hit points from the invigorating powers you get later.

The back ground rules mainly come from the Dragon Magazine, but you, generally, get racial back grounds from the PHB 2 and PHB 3, you get a few martial backgrounds from Matrial power 1 and 2, and a few from arcane, Psionic, and divine power books as well. They are completely optional, like the Paragon and Epic paths, but a little boost to a skill, lets you train in a skill, or give you flat bonus's for stuff.


They way I build characters are fluff first, long term second, first level power third. I can easily do weird combos like Gnome tempest fighter ,for example, and other weird things. I occasionally do the odd multiclass combos just because they end up being cool even if the combo itself does not seem optimal. I also like experimenting with hybrid characters (PHB 3) and some odd combos work real well together such as the Paladin|Sorcerer or even the Rogue|Psion. It's all a matter of taste, and how much you want to blow your DM's mind at what you can do, even with a sub-standard character. Also, always take Mounted Combat, because your always get the chance too get a mount, and it is worth it.

To really get use out of invigorating you need to be a Battlerager. They get temps whether they hit or not and double the modifier instead of just the mod. As it is right now you are getting a whole two temp hit points and you are having to ignore either Brawler specific powers or Heavy Blade specific powers. You also get the temps once a turn so even if you use a power that is invigoating that hits multiple targets you only are going to get 2 temp hit points, which is nothing. If you aren't worried about damage than I must inquire if you are using the three year old stats or the updated monster lists since the Monster Vault release? In the last year or so since the changes to skill challenges and monster stats they are much more formidable opponents. A few weeks ago a level 1 paladin got dropped to unconscious in the first turn of the first round of the game. In a paragon game just last night faced foulspawn and their at-will is 4 attacks and have a recharge that states if they hit it is a crit. Three temp hit points from invigorating at paragon isn't going to help when you get blasted for 30-50 hp a turn. If you want to mark multiple targets that is great but Brawler isn't really a multiple target marker by nature and you also didn't take anything that can mark multiple targets. There are odd builds that are interesting and go against convention and then there are builds that just ignore mechanics and can't do anything.

Paragon and Epic destinies aren't optional, unless you mean you have multiple options to choose from when you get to paragon and epic.

Thanks for the tips and handy synergies.

Im definitely leaning towards a half-elf Swordmage or a human Monk.

The group might benefit best from either, will see what they think.

I dont think I will play the Swordmage as a drunk, but he could still fulfill the role of a bastard son born to an Elven slave or dignitary.

To update...

I crossed over on the weekend. Our paladin took the helm as DM and I assumed my new PC.

Things went very well, I am just clarifying and cleaning up my character sheet at present.

I am playing a Half-Elf Monk.

I would like to publicly thanks everyone who contrinuted to this thread.

A special thanks to AHTMAN whose guidance has been irreplacable.

I owe you a beer when you are next in town

AvatarForm wrote:A special thanks to AHTMAN whose guidance has been irreplacable.

I owe you a beer when you are next in town

Assuming your character hasn't finished all the beer then you're on.

Ahtman wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:A special thanks to AHTMAN whose guidance has been irreplacable.

I owe you a beer when you are next in town

Assuming your character hasn't finished all the beer then you're on.

Well... I did have 3 before we left Winterhaven... the Drinking points really come in handy in prolonged combats.

and your tip about pushing the opponent straight UP was awesome... I threw the boss opponent 25ft in the air... when she landed it was not pretty