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Ive decided to start a Skaven Army and this is the first list Ive made from the book So Ive got no idea what good Lists are so please could I have some advice? criticism is fine if you hate my list then say so, I dont mind!

Lords
Grey Seer (General)
Screaming Bell
2 Warpstone Tokens
470pts

Heroes
Chieftain
BSB
Warp-Forged Armour
Talisman of Protection
Halberd
117pts

Warlock Engineer
Level 1 Wizard
Warp Energy Condenser
Doomrocket
125pts

Warlock Engineer
Warpmusket
Warlock Optics
50pts


Core
49 Clanrats (1 Warlock Here)
Shields
Spears
Full Command
Ratling Gun
320pts

49 Clanrats (1 Warlock Here)
Shields
Spears
Full Command
265pts

39 Stormvermin (BSB and Screaming Bell go Here)
Full Command
Storm Banner
348pts

Special
5 Gutter Runners
Poisoned Attacks
85pts

6 Rat Ogres
3 Packmasters
Master-bred Rat Ogre
279pts


Rare
Hell Pit Abomination
Warpstone Spikes
250pts

Warp Lightning Cannon – 90pts

Total: 2,399pts

Tactics:
3 Big Blocks hold the middle with the HPA on 1 flank and the Rat Ogres on the other
Gutter Runners are there to threaten warmachines and redirect charges etc

First off, you can't post individual point costs.
You have a solid start on a good Skaven list, there are a few changes I'd make though:
I like the Bell, but drop the warp tokens for skalm on the seer. The ability to heal wounds from miscasts/ranged attacks etc will be better than the extra tokens. Besides, you already start the game with D3 warp tokens for the seer.
BSB could be better protected. I would take Silvered Armor instead of your current set up, the 1+ save is nice against lost of low strenth attacks, and you can still keep the halberd. Or you can go Armor of Destiny and HWS for a 3+/3++ due to the parry bonus.
Warplock #1 has to many points in magic items, 50 is max. Lose the warp energy condencer, as the doom rocket is so much better.
Drop the other warplock, he's really not going to do much for your army with 1 jazzal shot a turn.
Ratling guns are the suck, posion wind mortars or warpfire throwers are the way to go on weapons teams. Ignoreing armor saves altogether or flamming attacks is better than the multiple strenth 4 ap shots from the ratling gun.
I'd also place the Bell in a unit of clanrats. You do not want the Bell in combat, and placing it in the SV means that's a lot of pooints not seeing action, and a lot of storm vermin not killing things.
Also tempted to drop the RO for some slaves, like 2 units of 50ish. With the 18 inch LD bubble provided by the bell, your slaves will hold up for awhile. Use the remaining points on anoter unit of gutter runners for war machine hunting, and more clan rats. A unit or 2 of around 20 w/shields are good for taking a flank, redirecting charges, holding up cav etc.
Warpstone spikes on the HPA aren't nessesary, magic res sucks in 8th. Better off with 5 more clanrats, or 10ish more slaves for the cost.

thanx for the advice
reason i did individual points costs is cos i did it straight on word and jus copied it over. secondly I mistyped, condenser is 20 points and reason why i took warpstone tokens is so i always have at least 3 and it doesnt count towards arcane items limit of 1.
I took the Spikes on the HPA cos i had some points left over no real other reason than that.

For the blocks in the middle does that mean rat unit with bell in the middle with other unit of rats on one side and the Stormvermin on the other flank?

I'd quite like to keep the Rat Ogres for some flanking punch as opposed to another tarpit altho im tempted to drop the second warlock, make it 50 clanrats in 1 unit and some more Gutter runners
that sound ok to you?

Yeah, a lot people copy/paste thier army lists with point costs in them. It's just one of those GW IP things.
Everything looks good to me. Skaven is more about out manuvoring your opponent than smashing through his lines like a hammer.
If you like the spikes and the RO, then keep them in the list.
I would run the clanrats with Bell on a flank, shielded by terrien if possible. If the Bell gets into combat, the opponent will direct all his attacks ont he seer. A 4++ is good, but it won't see your seer live through a single round combat unless you're very lucky.
I'd place the SV and clanrats (w/o Bell) in the middle. Let the clanrats tar pit so the RO can flank.
Droping the 2nd warplock for more clanrats is probaly a good idea, or more gutter runners. 2 units of 5-6 are great for war machine/wizard hunting.
Any plans on how you're going to run your HPA? This monster can guard a whole flank by it's self, or steam roll up the middle to suppourt your SV in combat. If you're faceing Lore of Fire, get the HPA into combat ASAP, one flamming wound and you no longer get to roll on the "It's Alive" chart.

ok Ive just come up with a New army list, Warpfire throwers instead of Ratling Guns and some unupgraded Gutter Runners, and only 1 Warlock Engineer

Lords
Grey Seer (General)
Screaming Bell
Skalm
470pts

Heroes
Chieftain
BSB
Armour of Destiny
Halberd
122pts

Warlock Engineer
Level 1 Wizard
Condenser
Doomrocket
Warplock Pistol
123pts

Core
50 Clanrats
Spears
Shields
Full Command
270pts

50 Clanrats
Spears
Shields
Full Command
Warpfire Thrower
340pts

38 Stormvermin (BSB and Warlock Engineers unit)
Full Command
Storm Banner
Warpfire Thrower
411pts

Special
5 Gutter Runners – 60pts

6 Rat Ogres
Master-Bred Rat Ogre
3 Packmasters
279pts

Rare
Hell Pit Abomination – 235pts
Warp Lightning Cannon – 90pts

Total: 2,400pts

basically Stormvermin and Clanrats go forward flanked by the HPA and the RO while the Rats with the Bell stay a bit behind and The Gutter Runners are there to kill warmachine crews or lone wizards and eventually flank charge any units charged by the rats or stormvermin

cricketofdeth wrote:
BSB could be better protected. I would take Silvered Armor instead of your current set up, the 1+ save is nice against lost of low strenth attacks, and you can still keep the halberd. Or you can go Armor of Destiny and HWS for a 3+/3++ due to the parry bonus.

parry bonus is not added to the ward save its one or the other.

would still stick some slaves in the list a minimum of 2 units of 40+ are a great tarpit at sorting out enemy special and rare. personally i'd leave the seer on foot harder for the enemy to pick out unless they have some gadgets or spells. would stick a dispel scroll in probably on the warlock or have another warlock with just the scroll. earthing rod on the seer will give him better miscast protection. could drop units to 40 for extra points. doomwheel is awesome on a flank have a look at it, or another cannon.

My bad, I thought the parry save added to your ward save.

I guess if I dropped the Warpfire thrower on the Stormvermin and the Screaming Bell I could have room for some Slaves and another warlock engineer with Wizard and Scroll as well as like a Warlock weapon/Musket/Pistol
If I dont take the Bell should I put the Grey Seer in the Stormvermin and have the 2 Warlocks in the Clanrats or all 4 Characters in the Stormvermin?
In which case it would be 3 blocks in the middlewith Slaves just in front to tarpit/screen with Rat Ogres on the side and the HPA on the other.
Sound good?

i'd spread characters out as much as poss. storm vermin are going to want to get into combat so don't put seer there. plus if you do miscast clanrats are better to die than svermin, alot of folks stick the engineer in with slaves to boost their ld, its a good tactic but again beware the combat.

id like to put the BSB and the Warlock Engineer in the Stormvermin but have the Grey Seer in the Clanrats cast Skitterleap on him when the SV get in combat?

Drop your clanrat blocks to 40 (command and additional characters included in this total) and toss the shields. You just don't need any more than that and the shields don't really matter that much. Definately keep the spears though. Put your heroes in these units.

In addition to clanrats, I like to run blocks of slaves in a bus of 50 rats, 5 wide and 10 deep. You'll have a tarpit that won't break for at least three or even four turns. Put a musician in there just in case a flank charge presents itself.

Huh. Lot of stuff's been said. Here's my two warptokens:

- first, a question: how brutal do you want to be? The Power Scroll is pretty standard issue on Bell-riding Seers, along with Skalm. The Bell is a solid choice, really. It frees up some item-allotment for your Seer and offers some pretty useful abilities; the two that come to mind are the ability to destroy the Folding Fortress, and the ability to automatically wipe out basically any unit with a boosted Flesh to Stone cast on it.

- I don't think you'll need as many Slaves if you want to run a big Unbreakable block of Clanrats. One unit of 50 should do, if you need the points elsewhere; I usually try to spend as little of my resources in tar pits as possible, and go for maximum toys and carnage. The Ironcurse Icon is also a nice choice to keep some of them Clanrats alive longer.

- Your BSB is easily more important to your army than your general. Keep him alive. I usually do Armour of Destiny and a halberd, but I'll switch out for Talisman of Preservation and Charmed Shield, if the talisman isn't on my Grey Seer (which it isn't, when the Seer's on a Bell), since it's the same price with more effect.

- honestly, I'd consider dropping the Condenser and nabbing 15pts from somewhere to get that Warlock to lvl2. The second spell is at least as useful as the occasional extra die, mainly because Scorch is so sick, and Crack's Call is so potentially sick, and Howling Warpgale is often good.

- not sure about Clanrats with spears. I usually just give them shields to keep them cheap. Shields are great on their own (save 1 in 6 with parry, 6 shields cost 3pts, one Clanrat costs 4.5pts), but become a ton less useful when coupled with spears.

- I'd only do weapon teams once my Rare was kitted out. Warpfire Throwers can be absolutely devastating. Poisoned Wind Mortars are less so, but more reliable. Warp Lightning Cannons are comically and nauseatingly good, though.

- Stormvermin usually die faster than Clanrats, so I'd (1) keep characters out of there, and (2) either buff them up or drop them down. Stormvermin with Death Frenzy can be pretty damn effective, but...I'm not sure they're worth it, even then.

- The rat ogres have room for another packmaster, and I'd say they get it. For their points, they pack an amazing punch. Just make sure they hit home where you need them; they won't survive that initial attack with enough bodies to do much else.

- A-bombs are amazing. They're simply amazing. And if you've got the points, keep them Spikes on 'im! A 6+ Ward versus flaming spells is okay. The ability for Lovecraft to beat up Vincent Price in a mutant-versus-ghost showdown/buffet? Priceless.

- the Doomwheel isn't nearly as cool as it used to be. It is the undisputed king of monster-killing, but that's about it.

Overall, it seems solid. Not crazy-competitive, but capable. I'd probably drop a unit of Clanrats or the Stormvermin for a block or two of Slaves, maybe bump the Gutter Runners to 6 or 7 (never more). Get a Rat Dart (five Giant Rats and a packmaster) and a fourth 'master for the Rat Ogres. Drop the 'Thrower for another Cannon. Stuff like that.

im not really interested in a ultra competitive list tbh, and this may sound stupid but why do people often suggest rat darts? what are they good for?

Rat darts a stupidly good for warmachine hunting, well thats what one opponent did against my empire. Basically held up 3/4 of my warmachines with them for a few turns whilst his entire army charged. To an opponent rat darts aren't really a threat at first so they don't bother going after them and go for the bigger units with their warmachines. Their also very good for a flank charge.

ah i see, so they make a good partnership with gutter runners to close down warmachine threats which absoloutely crap all over skaven

And anyone with big expensive models.

Honestly, for 23pts, you get 6 attacks and M6. They're good for a fair number of things, though mostly hunting war machines, at which they're--on average--slightly faster to the punch than Gutter Runners.

Beyond that, they can redirect chargers and so on, make lone wizards run away, the usual stuff for your cheap and maneuverable units. Except they're the cheapest. Period.

so it would be worth finding the points for one of these "rat Darts"

If it's a choice between it and more Slaves or Clanrats, sure. If those 23pts go towards getting your A-bomb, then no.