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i'm a space marine player that has clashed with tyranids multiple times and gotten dominated every game. What is their weakness, other than the fact that they can't shoot well???

space_marine_horder_24 wrote:i'm a space marine player that has clashed with tyranids multiple times and gotten dominated every game. What is their weakness, other than the fact that they can't shoot well???

plasma weapons = melted bugs

What kind of nid army do you play? Nid zilla(Lots of multi-wound bugs) or a big horde army?

I reckon (from getting spanked many times myself) you're best bet is to stay mobile, bring as many flamers as you can and use cover for the marines as much as possible. Sure, you're marines don't really need to cover save but Tyrannids have to assault though cover which means they attack at Iniative 1 which is harsh for them. Use it to thin the hordes and remember to use combat tactics to fall back out of assault range whenever you get the chance too!

One of the Nids' major shortcomings is a lack of invulnerable saves in much of the army. Use power weapons and low AP guns to circumvent this. Also, target priority is an important thing to learn when fighting them.

Generally speaking, Nids can't deal with armor effectively. They have hive guard which are str 8 (and 24"), and zoanthropes which are str 10 lance (and 24"). Thats about it. Hive guard are only str 8, so hurting av13 and up is hard for them. Zoies can own just about any tank in the game, however they need to pass a psychic test and are physically weak.

This is all fine and dandy but you are playing space marines. Aside from plopping down a few land raiders, you really can't get high armor in quantity. Predators could work, especially cause they can out range both of these threats. This all being said, avoid close combat. Nids willl demolish tanks in close combat. All the monsterous creatures as well as genestealers will go through almost any tank like butter.

Aside from that, knowing if you are playing against nidzilla or horde will help.

If you play marines then give 10 (or more) TH/SS termies a try. As a bonus put Shrike into the list and watch as you munch on pretty much anything the nids bring to the table.

Things that screw nids up:

Lack of frag grenades on almost everything in the codex.
Lack of an invulnerable save on anything except Zoanthropes and swarmlord.
Lack of AP3 or better shooting on anything except zoanthropes.
Poisoned weapons.
Weapons that inflict instant death without an armor save.
Rules for cover on MCs generally suck.

Things that marines have that take advantage of this:

Using terrain if you are going to sit back and shoot to force them to assault into cover and thus, be at Initiative:Suck.
You have many options for rending or poisoned weapons between sternguard, assault cannons, and sniper rifles. Use them.
There is almost nothing in the nid codex with better than a 3+/0++. Missile launchers are abundant. Lascannons, meltaguns, multimeltas, and plasma are even more abundant. Use this to your advantage.
Assault terminators with a mix of twin LCs and thunderhammers (Perhaps 1-2 LC in a 5 pack.) will happily go toe to toe with most of the nid codex in CC.
You have multiple options for heavy flamers, some of them extremely mobile. Applications should be obvious.
You, unlike the nid player, can voluntarily fall back from a combat. IF you manage this, you can then subject them to yet more shooting, or to counterpunch them with another unit.
Manage to wound a MC with a librarian, and pass the psychic test, and you can ID a trygon.
Nids have trouble dealing with land raiders, except with MCs in CC. If you can keep them away from the raider, or shoot down the MCs first, you can probably roll all over the remainder of the army with it.

SOFDC wrote:Things that screw nids up:

Lack of frag grenades on almost everything in the codex.
Lack of an invulnerable save on anything except Zoanthropes and swarmlord.
Lack of AP3 or better shooting on anything except zoanthropes.
Poisoned weapons.
Weapons that inflict instant death without an armor save.
Rules for cover on MCs generally suck.

Things that marines have that take advantage of this:

Using terrain if you are going to sit back and shoot to force them to assault into cover and thus, be at Initiative:Suck.
You have many options for rending or poisoned weapons between sternguard, assault cannons, and sniper rifles. Use them.
There is almost nothing in the nid codex with better than a 3+/0++. Missile launchers are abundant. Lascannons, meltaguns, multimeltas, and plasma are even more abundant. Use this to your advantage.
Assault terminators with a mix of twin LCs and thunderhammers (Perhaps 1-2 LC in a 5 pack.) will happily go toe to toe with most of the nid codex in CC.
You have multiple options for heavy flamers, some of them extremely mobile. Applications should be obvious.
You, unlike the nid player, can voluntarily fall back from a combat. IF you manage this, you can then subject them to yet more shooting, or to counterpunch them with another unit.
Manage to wound a MC with a librarian, and pass the psychic test, and you can ID a trygon.
Nids have trouble dealing with land raiders, except with MCs in CC. If you can keep them away from the raider, or shoot down the MCs first, you can probably roll all over the remainder of the army with it.

THis +1.
I play marines and all the above points allow a near instant win against nids every time. That and the fact that their list is not very good in this codex. any competent general with good target priority can just kick butt on nids.

One thing that always gets me is Tyranid Warriors. My brother plays nids and he has a 5 strong unit with attached prime. Its really gnarly. I find high str low Ap weapons work well, but in general they are best ignored. 3 wounds, BS and WS 4 (with attached Prime), str 5 weapons, and they are scoring. Ouchies

3 wounds, BS and WS 4 (with attached Prime), str 5 weapons, and they are scoring. Ouchies

Thunderhammers and powerfists, not to mention any unit that can place more than 1 S8+ wound in shooting at a time will hit that quite hard.

One krak missle will be allocated to the prime.
A devastator squad placing 4 krak missles get one allocated to the prime...and then however many others IDing warrior bases.

id say use land speeder typhones and a gun line. first, shoot his monsters and synapscreatures then use your land speeders to lure away his nids with feed.

Avoid combat at all costs. Burn the light infantry with flamers and smite the heavy stuff with anti tank weapons

Nids are an interesting army in the grand scheme of 40k... They are really good against new players and really bad against old players.

Let me explain a bit. New players to the game tend to have much less modeling options... so less vehicles, less optimal weapons, less total units to choose from. Nids, on the other hand, get any weapons they want on a unit they buy, dont have vehicles anyway, and so only really suffer from having less total units to pick from when compared to an experienced player.

Example: New player 1 buys a 10 man box of tactical marines. He has a missile launcher, a flamer, and thats it. New player 2 buys a genestealer box. He can make these Ymgarl if he wants, or regular stealers, and has every upgrade possilble except the broodlord--which can be converted without too much trouble. In a game versus the player with the tactical marines, the stealers start 18 inches away, and only have to suffer 1 or 2 shooting phases. With cover, the tacticals will be hard pressed to stop the stealers, and in CC the stealers will win most of the time. However, as the Marine player spends a bit more, he gets a Rhino that makes him immune to the initial stealer charge, and a powerfist for crushing stealers in CC so they dont lose outright anymore. All stealers get is more stealers.

So what models does your Space Marine army have available, and what points are you playing at?

Force Weapons, Mindstrike Missiles, I6 power weapons.

Those are hard counters, but the ultimate weakness of tyranids generally are vehicles. They just cant bring the proper effectiveness to defeat armor.

Most of their range weapons are short ranged, this means that you have to play the chasing game before you can even begin to stop him from playing the chasing game.

The best example is when a tyranid unit is faced with a Rhino full of marines:

The genestealers can either:

-Wait for the rest of the army to shoot down the rhino and assault it

-Or try to kill the vehicle themselves which risks them for an explosion killing 1-3 stealers. And then theres the crater to deal with and the harsh armor-ignoring salvo next player turn. If you survive the free shooting last turn, you will now have to deal with I1 when trying to assault through cover. And by then you are horribly screwed.

thx a lot for all the tips, I'm playing nids again this saturday and ill try to use these strategies against him. also hes playing nidzilla at 2000 points i have a white scars biker/ marines in rhino army

A short answer would be to use templates on the little ones and high S low AP weapons on the big ones. No invulnerable save really hurts the big guys. RL spam is a great bug killers. Good for either size creature. Take as many rockets as possible.

Nidzilla vs Bikers means that you have to kill his small stuff while ducking the big ones. This should be easy on bikes, but, a little bit of boom is needed.

Personally, I've runthe Anvil Chorus for years (4 missile launchers in a five man devastator squad) and now, more than ever, it dominates the bugs. Only one model they have gets a 2+ armor save, and nothing has greater than a 6 toughness, thus, your missiles hit on a 3+ (With one on a 2+), wound on a 2+, and he gets no save. That lets you ding up big bugs, like Carnifexi, or MURDER Tyrannid Warriors (Instant Death on 3-4 per turn of shooting? Yikes!) Don't bother wth frag missiles, tho ... you have other stuff for the squishies.

In addition to bikers, look to attack bike squads that are each armed with heavy bolters for some massive killing ... keep your distance and, in two rounds of firing, you can wipe out entire squishysquads.

Your tactical guys need to have a power fist in each squad and a rhino, and come in ten man bundles if possible. The reason is that the 'invisible power fist' can be the last guy you take out, so, if a bug gets into melee, you're getting three attacks a round from the Fist, which wounds even the biggest bug on a 2+ with no save. His round of melee, then your round of melee, it's possibly dead. Another round and it certainly will be, assuming you had enough ablative wounds to endure.

Flamers are free. Every tac squad should have one.

And as noted, cover is your friend ... not for the saves so much, you're largely immune, but for the Initiative ... bugs don't get Frag Grenades, by and large, which means that if you're in cover, you swing first and, despite what you might think, the average bug is *terrible* in a fight ... 3 toughness and a 6+ armor save means even vanilla tacticals mow 'em down in waves.

PraetorDave wrote:One thing that always gets me is Tyranid Warriors. My brother plays nids and he has a 5 strong unit with attached prime. Its really gnarly. I find high str low Ap weapons work well, but in general they are best ignored. 3 wounds, BS and WS 4 (with attached Prime), str 5 weapons, and they are scoring. Ouchies

Have you heard of a "missile launcher"?

Vindicators and anything else with a demolisher cannon