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I have been thinking about starting Ogres for fantasy. Any C&C would be greatly appreciated.

Lord-

Tyrant 300
Fencer's blades
Glittering scales
Dragon bane gem
Greyback pelt

Hero-

Butcher 175
Halfling cookbook
Gnoblar thiefstone
Ironcurse icon

Core-

12x Bulls 455
Bellower, Standard bearer

12x Bulls 455
Bellower, Standard bearer

20x Gnoblar fighters

Rare-

Gorger 75

1500

It feels off balance but I can't seem to place my finger on how.

i would do a few things...

1) Drop the tyrant- He is great, but at this point value 300 points is just too much.


2) Divide the bulls into three units of eight-This will ensure that you don't have models sitting in the back of your units doing nothing.

3) Grab a few Gnoblars- I don't take them in larger games, but at this size they can be great. When people play against ogres they expect, well, ogres. Throwing some of the cheapest crummiest hordiest infantry in the game can throw your opponents off.

4) Get a scrap launcher if you can fit it- Arguably the best war machine in the game. Killing blow and a large template are complemented beautifully by the giant cave beast attached to the front. If some annoying unit comes to take out your launcher, just charge it!


Well, that is what I've got. Hope it helps.

-Jim

Well I was planning on having the bulls in a horde formation and was told that since they are MI that was only 6 rather than 10 so with 12 that would give me just 2 rows. Was I misinformed?

You were not misinformed. A frontage of six is a horde. I assumed you would run 4x3. Let me ask you: Why use a horde formation with no third rank? Its not a trick question or anything, I just want to know your reasoning.

-Jim

Well I know hardly anything about fantasy. I am a 40k player but im burnt out on that atm. But I have noticed that the usual tactic in our store is to run huge blocks and I wanted something with the frontage to take advantage of that. It was only when I was talking to the fellow about this he told me that they get it at 6 not that I had time to ask him what that entailed. But ran out of time before I got the chance to ask what that meant.

A frontage of six allows the third rank to attack along with the first and second. Do keep in mind that the second and third rank have a maximum of three attacks when dealing with monstrous infantry. My personal feeling is that if you are not going to take advantage of a third rank, there is no reason to have such a large frontage. The ogres on the ends will not get to attack if you run into small units, and the extra wide front can make it hard to maneuver. Also, at six bases wide, you run a greater risk of getting charged by multiple enemy units. You could grab a full 18 man horde of naked bulls. You run the risk of getting out maneuvered, but there are few units that can take out that horde head on at 1500 points.

If there is a tendency to have a large frontage, try a unit of gnoblars 5 wide and 7 or 8 deep. This unit will deny at least 9 attacks against an enemy horde with 20mm bases, and more against 25mm. The gnoblars will most likely remain steadfast which will likely give you a chance to hit the enemy in the flank with your bulls.

When I run games under 2500, I like units of eight bulls. I would suggest giving each setup a try so you can see what works better for you.

-Jim

Thanks that was very helpful.

Taking your advice into account my new list should look a little more like this.

Hero-

Butcher 170
Halfling cookbook
Gnoblar thiefstone

Core-

8x Bulls 310
Bellower, Standard bearer

8x Bulls 310
Bellower, Standard bearer

8x Bulls 310
Bellower, Standard bearer

20x Gnoblar fighters 40

20x Gnoblar fighters 40

20x Gnoblar fighters 40

20x Gnoblar fighters 40

Special-

Gnoblar Scraplauncher 165

Rare-

Gorger 75

1500

Seems huge for an ogre army but what do you think?

Or I could drop 60 Gnoblar for 4 more bulls.

I think there has to be a 1 to1 ratio of bulls to gnoblars... I dont have the book in front of me, so that could be completely wrong. Worth checking out though.

-Jim

Illegal list as stated need a 1:1 ratio of bulls to gnoblars if you want to take them and need a 1:1 ratio of gnoblars to scrappies. Also you need a general a brusier or a tyrant, cannot be a butcher. I actually like your first list better then the 2nd, but a scrappie is a lot better then a Gorger, Gorgers are best in pairs.

Well thats good to know I was dreading painting that many of them. So trading them out for a bruiser. maybe dropping the thief stone.

Oh wow its a list without the typical magic immune deathstar and unkillable tyrant.

Question wrote:Oh wow its a list without the typical magic immune deathstar and unkillable tyrant.

The typical list as you mention is a good choice. At this point level, however, there is not room for the needed support units.

-Jim

Support units? All you need is some gnoblars and a min unit of bulls.

Anything that tries to assault your deathstar will die. As long as your deathstar doesnt die close to 75% of your VPs are unclaimable. Meanwhile your deathstar can easily kill more than 50% of the enemy VPs.

The only counter i can think of is using purple sun and hoping it doesnt get dispelled or misfires.

Butchers can not be a general...I would just fit in a Tyraznt with a 4++ enchanted shield, CLS and HA.

Keep the butcher, and replace half the gnoblar units with trapper units, just to pick up ScarpLaunchers.

Ralin Givens wrote:Butchers can not be a general...I would just fit in a Tyraznt with a 4++ enchanted shield, CLS and HA.

Keep the butcher, and replace half the gnoblar units with trapper units, just to pick up ScarpLaunchers.

All good ideas, but we dont have enough points. How about... Drop one gnoblar unit, convert one to a trapper unit, Drop the gorger, and drop a bull from each of two units. That should leave room for a bruiser with some equipment. Points for a tyrant would have to come in the place of an entire unit of bulls, which, at this point level is of greater tactical value than the character.

-Jim