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Hi

I've already posted this in the P&M Blog section but think it may sit better here to start with for the fluff and then the models will go into the P&M blog when I start to take over the Imperium

Below is a rough list of chapters and other imperial forces I’m going to be looking into over the coming months and years most likely. I’m very fluff orientated with my armies as I enjoy the modelling and painting side so much which is where all my inspiration and ideas come from. Each chapter/army for me needs to be very different in appearance not just colour. So if anyone can point me in the right direction for good fluff for any of these I would be very obliged.

Howling Griffons – Love the colour scheme of these guys and believe they have special pride in their oaths, not sure how to represent this on models, maybe lots of purity seals. They also have the option of their night world livery.

Dark Angels – Based on their Red Indian heritage which seems to be missing from GW’s current versions of them

Red Scorpions – I don’t know much about these so will need some back ground fluff help , I really like the FW models and look forward to painting them.

Ultramarines – I have a special idea of doing an Ultramarine army based on new recruits in their training stages working out how to use their weapons and general fun conversions like guys tripping over stuff etc. This idea was inspired from a few posts from the Rebuilding the Mantis Warriors blog by Gitsplitta.

White Scars – Based on their Mongol ancestry, not sure to stick with bikes or uses horses yet.

Imperial Beastmen (Guard) – Every since Rouge Trader I’ve wanted to do an Imperial Beastmen army and with all the models that I need now in plastic and my new confidence in converting it may very well happen.

Genestealer Cult (Imperial Guard) – Another army based on the guard codex but this one will be very different. Not sure how I’m going to do it yet but that’s part of the fun. I’ve just downloaded the Genestealer Cult mini dex from BoLS for some inspiration.

Blood Angel and Space Wolf codexs are covered in my chaos blog, they will be represented by Night Lords and Dark Wolves.

That’s it for me for now if I’ve missed any interesting armies that can be based off the imperial codexs please let me know, all I need is a spark of inspiration and I'll add them to my list.

May I suggest lexicanum? It is the repository of all fluff in existance. Just google the word and click the first web page.

Hope this helps.

Rogue trader beastmen guard are out of commission. While they sought atonement for being mutants the Ecclesiarchy refuses to allow them to ser4ve; too tainted by chaos.

That said, you could still run them anyway.

The regiment could be so far out or cut off from imperial comms that they never got the message that they are Persona Non Grata these days, and will be purged when the Imperium gets around to it.

Alternately you could build the fluff of them still fighting on with imperial gear, despite being betrayed and whatever by the imperium, fighting them as well as the xenos/chaos.

It's what i'd do

GiraffeX wrote:Dark Angels – Based on their Red Indian heritage which seems to be missing from GW’s current versions of them

The Native American influences are actually relatively small in the Dark Angels chapter as a whole.

Plains World was just one of many recruitment worlds used post-Caliban, its influence can be seen in the Deathwing (the white is the a reference to the ash they covered themselves with as they iradicated the genestealer infestation).

As Plains World was lost long ago the last recruitment from the world was more than a thousand years ago so the influence has deminished.

It's also worth noting that now Deathwatch puts a kind of interesting slant on the 'Tale of Two-Heads Talking'.

Deathwatch Core Rulebook, page 45 wrote:
The first such allegory a Dark Angel is told recounts the s-called Tale of Two-Heads-Talking, in which a band of Deathwing Terminators returned to the planet of their birth to find their people enslaved by hideous xenos overlords. Daubing their armour white, as was the tradition of their people, the Terminators began their death-quest. They defeated their enemy, but at the cost of the life of their beloved librarian.
Similar tales are told at every stage in a Dark Angel's progression through the ranks, the details changing from one story to the next, but the essential truth remaining. Each tells of a group of heroes returning to their home world to find their people enthralled by a traitor, and only at the cost of eternal shame are the enemies defeated. Even then, some always escape.
Only on his ascension to the First Company, called the Deathwing, does a Battle-Brother begin to learn the truth of the events that transpired at the very dawn of the Age of the Imperium. Rising through the intricate and convoluted ranks of the Inner Circle, he learns more and more, the secrets unveiled as his masters' trust in him increases. Only upon ascension to the rank of Grand Master is the truth revealed, and even then, it is likely that there remain revelations known only to the holder of the title of Supreme Grand Master, the Chapter Master of the Dark Angels.

Thanks everyone for the replies so far

DeadlySquirrel wrote:May I suggest lexicanum? It is the repository of all fluff in existance. Just google the word and click the first web page.

Hope this helps.

Lexicanum is good but It doesn't cover the little things like what GW based the chapters on, unless I've missed those parts.

Ascalam wrote:That said, you could still run them anyway.

The regiment could be so far out or cut off from imperial comms that they never got the message that they are Persona Non Grata these days, and will be purged when the Imperium gets around to it.

Alternately you could build the fluff of them still fighting on with imperial gear, despite being betrayed and whatever by the imperium, fighting them as well as the xenos/chaos.

It's what i'd do

Yeah I was thinking of basing them on out of the way jungle plant, which had been left to go feral by the Imperium after they stopped recruiting them.

BluntmanDC wrote:

GiraffeX wrote:Dark Angels – Based on their Red Indian heritage which seems to be missing from GW’s current versions of them

The Native American influences are actually relatively small in the Dark Angels chapter as a whole.

Plains World was just one of many recruitment worlds used post-Caliban, its influence can be seen in the Deathwing (the white is the a reference to the ash they covered themselves with as they iradicated the genestealer infestation).

As Plains World was lost long ago the last recruitment from the world was more than a thousand years ago so the influence has deminished.

Its a shame the influence is relatively small now days, I suppose I could base the army back in its prime (pre heresy) using FW parts etc when they still recruited from Plains World.

Uh, if they're 'Pre-Heresy'--they weren't recruiting from Plains World.

Plains World was post-Caliban...and Caliban was destroyed in the Heresy's aftermath.

And really, I never understood the idea that Dark Angels were 'Native American' as a whole.
The recruits from Plains World would have been shamanistic or similar to those kinds of beliefs--but not the Chapter/Legion as a whole. It's inevitable that you'd see some with ties one way or the other, given that the Chapter now is recruiting from anywhere/everywhere.

Thanks for the heads up Kanluwen, I'll have to put my thinking cap back on. My fluff knowledge is really weak, I've only just come back into the hobby.

Last time I played was 2nd edition and I've only read a few of the 40k novels. Grey Knights, Brothers of the Snake and A Thousand Sons.

I know my chaos fluff from Realm of Chaos but the imperial side I'm really struggling with.

Are you 100% set on them being a Dark Angels Chapter--or do you want to make one of your own?

Because I'm sure there's some world out there that could feasibly be very shamanistic and feasibly be used as the starting point for a 'shamanistic Space Marine army'.

I'm not really worried about the chapter.

Initially I'm looking for interesting chapters that have something different about them for modelling/conversions and painting.

I was looking for existing chapters to start with, I'm not confident/sure I want to go down the route of making my own chapters up. I wanted to enhance chapters that are already present in the 40k world.

I hope you see where I'm coming from.

I do, indeed.

I strongly advise against trying to 'enhance' Chapters that already exist.

They have an established background and playing around too much with it can end up blowing up in your face and killing any further motivation you might have to try and make your own ideas.

A good idea is to take a chapter that has only a little fluff and expand on it.
Maybe pre-world engine Astral Knights or the Sable Swords who replaced them.
Making a chapter is also fun and with help it is fairly easy to do.

GiraffeX wrote:

DeadlySquirrel wrote:May I suggest lexicanum? It is the repository of all fluff in existance. Just google the word and click the first web page.

Hope this helps.

Lexicanum is good but It doesn't cover the little things like what GW based the chapters on, unless I've missed those parts.

References are more of an 'easter egg' for those in the know, e.g. the story of Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka is far more interesting when you know its a rip at Margret Thatcher.

But that said, most legios have pretty clear historical backgrounds.

The Dark Angels have a good one...

Interesting to see you post about Imperial Beastmen... I've actually been mulling over the idea of putting them into my new Guard army. Of course, the Guard Codex no longer includes Beastmen (The new Codex made that old White Dwarf article about them obsolete...) but there is no law that says you can't model up a bunch and run them as Penal Legion troopers. As a matter of fact, that's what I'm planning to do myself.

One thing you may want to avoid, conversion-wise: If you are doing up loyalist Beastmen, use Ungor heads. They are Human-sized, so they will mount on a Cadian or Catachan body better, and the lack of really big horns will help sell the loyalist status. Full-on goat heads and cloven hooves work best on Traitor Guard Beastmen. After all, the Beastmen that the Imperium would field would be Humans who look (and usually smell) like animals, not animals that look (somewhat) like Humans. Also, if you've got any plastic Space Marine bits lying around, consider using purity seals on the Beastmen, too. Every little bit helps.

As far as Space Marine Chapters go, I encourage you to invent your own Chapter, and give it whatever flavor you desire. Someone might complain about "enhancements" you might do to an existing Chapter, but they can't say boo about whatver you decide to do to a Chapter you made yourself. Like Dark Angels' Native American aspects? Invent a successor Chapter from a tribal world and let your imagination (and your green stuff) run wild.

Wow... is anyone else picturing Space Marine Sargeants with Apache headdress in lieu of helmets?

References are more of an 'easter egg' for those in the know, e.g. the story of Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka is far more interesting when you know its a rip at Margret Thatcher.

Can never view than in the same way ever again.

squidhills wrote:

One thing you may want to avoid, conversion-wise: If you are doing up loyalist Beastmen, use Ungor heads. They are Human-sized, so they will mount on a Cadian or Catachan body better, and the lack of really big horns will help sell the loyalist status. Full-on goat heads and cloven hooves work best on Traitor Guard Beastmen. After all, the Beastmen that the Imperium would field would be Humans who look (and usually smell) like animals, not animals that look (somewhat) like Humans. Also, if you've got any plastic Space Marine bits lying around, consider using purity seals on the Beastmen, too. Every little bit helps.

Thanks I was going to use the normal horned beastmen heads and put them on Cadian bodys, I might end up doing them as traitor guardsmen then. When I get the first lot of sprues I'll see what looks best, chaos of course can have more fun in the conversion department.

squidhills wrote: As far as Space Marine Chapters go, I encourage you to invent your own Chapter, and give it whatever flavor you desire. Someone might complain about "enhancements" you might do to an existing Chapter, but they can't say boo about whatver you decide to do to a Chapter you made yourself. Like Dark Angels' Native American aspects? Invent a successor Chapter from a tribal world and let your imagination (and your green stuff) run wild.

Wow... is anyone else picturing Space Marine Sargeants with Apache headdress in lieu of helmets?

I have another post in the P&M section and some one mentioned about Dark Angels being based on Knights so I might do a successor chapter like you suggest and add knight parts and hearldry to some units and Native Americans aspects to some of the other squads or scouts.

Ideas are starting to flow now

Hi

I'm back after more fluff again, I'm still thinking of doing Dark Angels but pre-heresy.

The question is what units would you see in a pre-heresy Dark Angel army. Would they have a death/raven wing?

Any other things that wouldn't go with the flow please let me know I had thought about basing the army on the basic marine book rather than the DA book as its post heresy.

Thanks in advance

They would have Bikes and Terminators, but no Deathwing or Ravenwing.

BluntmanDC wrote:

GiraffeX wrote:Dark Angels – Based on their Red Indian heritage which seems to be missing from GW’s current versions of them

The Native American influences are actually relatively small in the Dark Angels chapter as a whole.

Dark Angel fluff is lost on a day to day basis.

Would anyone just starting now actually even believe there was a time when the Dark Angels were considered the finest legion of the Emperor, the legion he personally led, the most well trained, the greatest strategists, and the most well equipped with advanced technologies rare or unknown in other legions? Those things all used to be true.

It's worth pointing out that back in 1990, when the Deathwing novella was published, there was no established Dark Angels background to contradict. Luther, Caliban, the Fallen and all that are retcons imposed many years later when Codex: Angels of Death was released for Warhammer 40,000 2nd edition. It's frankly a shame, since Bill King's novella is significantly better than anything written on the Dark Angels since.

Prior to that point, the Plains World was assumed to be the Dark Angels' original recruiting world; in 1991 the legion's army list for the Heresy-set 1st edition of Epic Space Marine included a veteran 'Death Wing' 1st company, a mounted 'Raven Wing' 2nd and (which hasn't remained) a heavy support 'Iron Wing' 3rd.

All of this has long disappeared beneath editors' blue pencils, but it was for a long time the Dark Angels' established background.

Thanks you've all given me more ideas and helping me to get into the right frame of mind on deciding what units to build and how to try and portray them.