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OK, I know these existed because I had (maybe have, but I can't find it) the copy of White Dwarf they appeared in.

An awesome vehicle is up for preorder. It looks like a fast, heavily armed and armored recon vehicle. I want to take it for my Marine scouts, I think. Problem is, I don't want to use it as a proxy Rhino or Razorback - I want to use it as something else. Does anyone know where I can locate the vehicle design rules, or a fair equivalent thereof? I don't know how to cost the points, really.

Edit: OK I found one here. Do these seem legit to you, pointswise?

Try the elysian tauros(the six-wheeled variant) from IA:8.

Thanks... I'm going to. I already have the IA8 book so it works out.

I kinda think the points are screwy on that site anyway, as it turns out. AV10/10/10, fast, armed with only an assault cannon is 105pts. I can get 2 land speeders for that.

A closer approximation might be the Baal Predator which is "I can't say because of forum rules but more than 105" points.

The GW Vehicle Design Rules (VDR) are in the Chapter Approved compilation, copyright 2001. It doesn't say which WD they appeared in, though. They're also 3rd edition rules-based, so may not have all the latest toys.

The VDR appeared in WD251 December edition Pages 72-88

Ouze wrote:I kinda think the points are screwy on that site anyway, as it turns out. AV10/10/10, fast, armed with only an assault cannon is 105pts. I can get 2 land speeders for that.

From memory, that site was pretty spot-on for the original VDR. The VDR were deliberately over-costed, to stop people from just using them to plug deliberate tactical holes in codexes.

The idea was to allow you to create and use cool vehicles because they were cool, not because they were super-awesome rules-wise.

I just ran the sample vehicles in the WD through that website, they were all incorrect.

the website cost more than the WD lists them at.

I even made my own tank, and the website said it was more points than I had calculated with the WD article.

Furthermore you can not make a fast normal tank on that website, while the VDR allows this.

Overall do not use that website, the costs are not correct.

Hmm... I might have been remembering a different site, then...

DeathReaper wrote:I just ran the sample vehicles in the WD through that website, they were all incorrect.

the website cost more than the WD lists them at.

I even made my own tank, and the website said it was more points than I had calculated with the WD article.

Furthermore you can not make a fast normal tank on that website, while the VDR allows this.

Overall do not use that website, the costs are not correct.

You can make a fast tank from the site; that vehicle came to 140 with the minigun as an assault cannon, and it being a fast vehicle(either just a normal fast vehicle or a fast tank) and being AV 11, 10, &10; which is not too bad of a cost for a SM, Fast, Inferno Cannon/ Assault cannon delivery system(that looks awesome).

Problem is; even the Old WD/CA VDR is written for a time when Chimeras were 70 points+Guns(You had to pay for the turret ML+ Huff HB/HF, making a Chimera about 85 points most of the time); the Chimera under VDR was something like 130 points

That site was kind of close, but that site did overcost everything I put in compared to what they should actually be.

They added anywhere between 10 and 50 points to models.

Consider it a Coolness tax?

insaniak wrote:The idea was to allow you to create and use cool vehicles because they were cool, not because they were super-awesome rules-wise.

Well... this is all I care about anyway, so maybe the points overcosting doesn't matter.

Thanks, everyone! Especially DeathReaper - I know I have that WD somewhere and that will help me narrow my search through my old WD's substantially.

Anvildude wrote:Consider it a Coolness tax?

136.36% is a pretty high tax (percentage added to the VDR Chimera, and a current C:IG Chimera).

That's because you're trying to re-make already existing vehicles with it. It knows that you're being persnikety, and is punishing you accordingly. It only works properly if you're making something awesome.


That, or it just hates the Imperium. My Orky tries with the generator seemed well-costed enough.

insaniak wrote:

The idea was to allow you to create and use cool vehicles because they were cool, not because they were super-awesome rules-wise.

To be more precise; the idea was to take your awesome conversion (that you had already made and painted) and use the VDR as a way for you to figure out rules and point cost.

Unfortunately a lot of TFG nimrods took this neat idea and, after bending it over the table and having their way with it, took it down to the lake and held its head under the water until the last bubble went "plop".
This took the shape of such gems, dragged from the bowels of Hell, as blasty gatling Earthshaker Cannons and Super Heavy vehicles with 20-25 Heavy Bolters.

These idiots, instead of using the rules as they were intended, created the most monstrous hypothetical machines, and then built them.
I am sad to say that this very site was rife with such idiocy and I am happy the rules went the way of the dodo.

Though you have to admit that sounds like a Superheavy an Ork would create. Just two structure points, 'ard Cased, covered with 20 Big Shootas.

Honestly, Orks at least, and maybe Tyranids (for MCs of course) should be allowed to use rules like this. Marines? Not so much.

Anvildude wrote:That's because you're trying to re-make already existing vehicles with it. It knows that you're being persnikety, and is punishing you accordingly. It only works properly if you're making something awesome.


That, or it just hates the Imperium. My Orky tries with the generator seemed well-costed enough.

it has more to do with the Cost changes from 3rd(when the VDR was writ) to 5th; 85 points to 130 wasn't bad. 55 to 130 is. Some other things are right in Line(a Leman Russ is only 25 points more expensive at base, but added HB sponsons add 30 points)