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Hi all, I had my curiosity piqued by the recent "China gives the finger to GW" thread, and was wondering if discussion of websites like that one, (those that dabble in the online sale of GW products) is allowed. Is there a thread for such discussions and suggested websites, or is this all off-limits?

Feel free to lock this thread should the answer be no, although I couldn't find anything in the rules against discussing them (so long as there isn't any advertising).

Thanks

It's allowed AFAIK.
I don't see why it wouldn't be...

I can't see why talking about other websites that sell GW products would be a problem since most of the banner adds on Dakka are for just such sites. Maybe not recasters as such but legit sites most def.

Even non-legit sites are availible for discussion...

Commisar Wolfie wrote:I can't see why talking about other websites that sell GW products would be a problem since most of the banner adds on Dakka are for just such sites. Maybe not recasters as such but legit sites most def.

Its almost like people don't understand their laws stop at their borders. In China IP is not recognized from other nations. Pretty simple. What the Chinese place is doing is legal by their laws.

I know one thing they lock threads for is discussion of illegal downloading of codices, but I have not seen them close one for re-cast sites.

Discussing the ethics recasting is okay afaik
The problem is promoting it. The thread in question is possibly borderline but surely if it was a problem the Mods would have already knocked it on the head.

Cannot find anything specific to the issue in the rules

General Seric wrote:I know one thing they lock threads for is discussion of illegal downloading of codices, but I have not seen them close one for re-cast sites.

There is a certain amount of difference... We don't promote illegal recasting any more than we promote the share of illegal downloads.

The thing is, if you share a link to a copy of the Space Marine codex online, we know that it's an illegal download (unless it's in Japanese) so can safely lock the thread and move on.

Proof of recasting is a little trickier. We can guess that a given seller is recasting, but can't really definitively say that they are doing so unless they admit to it. And where sharing illegal download links allows people instant access to that download, sharing links to possible recasters doesn't... you still need to choose to go and pay for the product, so that's entirely on your own head. And publicising potential recasters serves to warn people off that site if they would prefer to stay away from that sort of thing.

insaniak wrote:

The thing is, if you share a link to a copy of the Space Marine codex online, we know that it's an illegal download (unless it's in Japanese) so can safely lock the thread and move on.

Just wondering, but why would it matter if it is in Japanese?

They're free to download from the GW JPN site.

Okay, thanks all. Is there already a forum talking about the best sites to buy WH40K kits? Could I get a link? If not, I may need to start one

Portugal Jones wrote:They're free to download from the GW JPN site.

That is messed up. I wounder why they do that...?

Happygrunt wrote:

Portugal Jones wrote:They're free to download from the GW JPN site.

That is messed up. I wounder why they do that...?

It's just a different strategy to try to break into the Japanese market, which has apparently been a bit of a struggle for them so far.

Happygrunt wrote:

Portugal Jones wrote:They're free to download from the GW JPN site.

That is messed up. I wounder why they do that...?

Because the Japanese market is incredibly hard to break into. I've been away for a while so I don't know if the card market has imploded yet, but there are a huge number of different CCG systems out at any given time, not to mention the video game powerhouses. Kids have much reduced free time and money compared to their European counterparts, and part time jobs are discouraged for highschoolers, although these days that varies a lot by location and school. I didn't scour the country or anything to check, but I never knew of any kids who played Warhammer games in Japan. It was all college aged or older, who had the time and the income to play. If you're trying to break into the leisure hobby market, you're going to need to have a real good hook, and having the complete army books freely available is one way to do it.

It seems to be a mod to mod discretionary call.

tgf wrote:It seems to be a mod to mod discretionary call.

Inconsistency from Dakka moderators?! Perish the thought!

So linking to say, scribd or TPB is a no-no then?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Omegus wrote:

tgf wrote:It seems to be a mod to mod discretionary call.

Inconsistency from Dakka moderators?! Perish the thought!

Fully agree, the moderation around here can be uneven to say the least.

I just closed the thread in question it took me 10 seconds to find they were selling GW plastic kits in resin so clearly they are a pirate site.

We don't allow links to pirate sites for downloading books, software etc, so pirate kits and bitz are also forbidden. There's quite a few folks including GW, including some friends of mine, trying to sell legit kits in China without further encouraging piracy of the designs they worked hard to create.

It also undercuts the advertisers who y'know, pay for this site we're enjoying.

Basically linking to such sites is not allowed.

To take this slightly off topic, GW offers their Codices for free in Japanese? So what's stopping a non-Japanese person from downloading the Codex and then running it through one of those programs that translates text?

And as a further side note, is there a particular reason that the Codices are available for free on the GW-Japan site?

Canadian 5th wrote:So linking to say, scribd or TPB is a no-no then?

Yes, threads have been closed or posts deleted in the past if illegal copies of codices have been posted from these sites.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I just closed the thread in question it took me 10 seconds to find they were selling GW plastic kits in resin so clearly they are a pirate site.

We don't allow links to pirate sites for downloading books, software etc, so pirate kits and bitz are also forbidden. There's quite a few folks including GW, including some friends of mine, trying to sell legit kits in China without further encouraging piracy of the designs they worked hard to create.

It also undercuts the advertisers who y'know, pay for this site we're enjoying.

Basically linking to such sites is not allowed.

So sit down and enjoy GW's price gouging and refusal to even allow not 100% GW product conversions. You wouldn't want to effect the bottom line of the company now would you!

Canadian 5th wrote:So linking to say, scribd or TPB is a no-no then?

Some stuff on scribd is fan work and posted by the authors, other stuff is pirated, as long as the poster owns the work or otherwise has permission to distribute it's fine.

Alas copyrights run for decades (In think 75 years in the US) so even OOP stuff is still under copyright.

General Seric wrote:

Canadian 5th wrote:So linking to say, scribd or TPB is a no-no then?

Yes, threads have been closed or posts deleted in the past if illegal copies of codices have been posted from these sites.

Oh, so saying google + say Space Marine 5e codex Scribd is something I shouldn't say then?

To save someone from reposting why....

Jimsolo wrote:To take this slightly off topic, GW offers their Codices for free in Japanese? So what's stopping a non-Japanese person from downloading the Codex and then running it through one of those programs that translates text?

And as a further side note, is there a particular reason that the Codices are available for free on the GW-Japan site?

Bookwrack wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:

Portugal Jones wrote:They're free to download from the GW JPN site.

That is messed up. I wounder why they do that...?

Because the Japanese market is incredibly hard to break into. I've been away for a while so I don't know if the card market has imploded yet, but there are a huge number of different CCG systems out at any given time, not to mention the video game powerhouses. Kids have much reduced free time and money compared to their European counterparts, and part time jobs are discouraged for highschoolers, although these days that varies a lot by location and school. I didn't scour the country or anything to check, but I never knew of any kids who played Warhammer games in Japan. It was all college aged or older, who had the time and the income to play. If you're trying to break into the leisure hobby market, you're going to need to have a real good hook, and having the complete army books freely available is one way to do it.

Canadian 5th wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I just closed the thread in question it took me 10 seconds to find they were selling GW plastic kits in resin so clearly they are a pirate site.

We don't allow links to pirate sites for downloading books, software etc, so pirate kits and bitz are also forbidden. There's quite a few folks including GW, including some friends of mine, trying to sell legit kits in China without further encouraging piracy of the designs they worked hard to create.

It also undercuts the advertisers who y'know, pay for this site we're enjoying.

Basically linking to such sites is not allowed.

So sit down and enjoy GW's price gouging and refusal to even allow not 100% GW product conversions. You wouldn't want to effect the bottom line of the company now would you!

Or buy products from another company, or from ebay, or scatchbuild. Yes.

I have a graveyard of minis from dead games, Warzone, Void, Vor, even good old Firefight and even the stillborn Hot Lead. All of them dead because people didn't support them (or bad business decisions). So yeah, if you don't like GW's monopoly support someone else. I personally would never buy their Empire stuff now that the Perry's plastic stuff is out.

Jimsolo wrote:To take this slightly off topic, GW offers their Codices for free in Japanese? So what's stopping a non-Japanese person from downloading the Codex and then running it through one of those programs that translates text?

Have you ever actually used translation software? Do you think that's actually going to give you a useable result? Especially since the exact wording of the translation can vary from program to program, how do you imagine that working when you have a rule dispute?

Bookwrack wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:To take this slightly off topic, GW offers their Codices for free in Japanese? So what's stopping a non-Japanese person from downloading the Codex and then running it through one of those programs that translates text?

Have you ever actually used translation software? Do you think that's actually going to give you a useable result? Especially since the exact wording of the translation can vary from program to program, how do you imagine that working when you have a rule dispute?

Find a Japanese person willing to do some translation work. Put free books up in other languages. Laugh at GW.

Canadian 5th wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:To take this slightly off topic, GW offers their Codices for free in Japanese? So what's stopping a non-Japanese person from downloading the Codex and then running it through one of those programs that translates text?

Have you ever actually used translation software? Do you think that's actually going to give you a useable result? Especially since the exact wording of the translation can vary from program to program, how do you imagine that working when you have a rule dispute?

Find a Japanese person willing to do some translation work. Put free books up in other languages. Laugh at GW.

And then get sued by GW.

coolyo294 wrote:

Canadian 5th wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:To take this slightly off topic, GW offers their Codices for free in Japanese? So what's stopping a non-Japanese person from downloading the Codex and then running it through one of those programs that translates text?

Have you ever actually used translation software? Do you think that's actually going to give you a useable result? Especially since the exact wording of the translation can vary from program to program, how do you imagine that working when you have a rule dispute?

Find a Japanese person willing to do some translation work. Put free books up in other languages. Laugh at GW.

And then get sued by GW.

Why? They released the rules for free, they never said you couldn't repost said free material. They also never said that you couldn't translate said material.

Better yet, get somebody from China who speaks Japanese to do it. Then what will GW do? Huff and puff and then go away because they don't have a leg to stand on in a Chinese court of law?

This thread is going, going, gone...