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My FLGS will be holding a 1500 tournament. Here is the list I am planning to take.

HQ

Company Command Squad : 180
Regimental Standard
Meltagun x 3
Astropath
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops

Platoon Command Squad : 125
Meltagun x 4
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Infantry Squad : 100
Commissar
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Infantry Squad : 65
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Platoon Command Squad : 125
Meltagun x 4
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Infantry Squad : 100
Commissar
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Infantry Squad : 65
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Fast Attack

Vendetta Gunship : 130

Vendetta Gunship : 130

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Demolisher ; 165
Hull Heavy Flamer

Leman Russ Battle Tank : 165
Hull Lascannon

Hydra Flak Tank x 2 : 150
Hull Heavy Bolters

TOTAL : 1500

My expected enemies are Mech Eldar, Ultramarines and Necrons. The Ultramarines and Necrons are simple enough. Any tips for fighting Mech Eldar though?

Is the astropth worthwhile. I think OOTF would be better to restrict your opponents reserves. Standard seems a bit of a waste in the CCS.

I would want to see power weapons on those infantry squads so they have some bite in CC.

I would look to drop the autocannons on 1 infantry platoon to keep it more mobile.

Those hydras and vendettas should deal with most eldar tanks.

Thanks for the advice ruminator

I was thinking that if the Mech Eldar player got 1st turn, I could reserve the Vendettas and have them come out later on. The Astropath helps with this.

The CCS standard is there so if the CCS/PCS transports get busted, they won't get pinned so easily.

The blobs as static fire bases so wouldn't power weapons be of little use?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just went on Facebook, the tournament has been changed to 1000 points as some of the Juniors don't have 1500 points worth of models.

Here is my 1K list

HQ

Company Command Squad : 105
Power Fist
Plasma Pistol
Regimental Standard
Flamer x 3

Troops

Platoon Command Squad : 125
Meltagun x 4
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Infantry Squad : 100
Commissar
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Infantry Squad : 65
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Platoon Command Squad : 125
Meltagun x 4
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Infantry Squad : 100
Commissar
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Infantry Squad : 65
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank : 165
Hull Lascannon

Hydra Flak Tank x 2 : 150
Hull Heavy Bolters

I like mobile troops as otherwise you struggle in objective games. One platoon can be pretty static but the other one needs to be able to move around and so doesn't need the heavy weapons. PW can make a 20 man unit a threat in CC when teamed witha commissar. They can handle tac squads and most eldar units apart from their CC specialists - but on a point for point basis they still do alright.

I'd drop the fist, pistol and standard in the CCS and spend the points elsewhere - eg power weapons.

If you don't get T1 then just try to give cover to your units rather than starting with them all off the board.

Okay ruminator, how does this look?

HQ

Company Command Squad : 105
Power Fist
Flamer x 3
Close Combat Weapons + Laspistol

Troops

Platoon Command Squad : 125
Meltagun x 4
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Infantry Squad : 115
Commissar
Power Weapon x 2
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 70
Power Weapon
Meltagun

Platoon Command Squad : 125
Meltagun x 4
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Infantry Squad : 115
Commissar
Power Weapon x 2
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 70
Power Weapon
Meltagun

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank : 150
Hull Heavy Bolter

Hydra Flak Tank x 2 : 150
Hull Heavy Bolters

TOTAL : 1000

Lots of Melta in durable units, plus the CCS can act as a counter assault with Fist and Flamers

Missle launches pose a threat to eldar tanks, wraithlord, and avatar (being meltas n flamers cant touch him) Also tanks, MEQ's, walkers, Terminators...even if they cant penetrate...they can stop something from shooting. or tank shocking. Remember, killing all weapons and imobilising it makes it dead..

AC's are usualy pretty good. As hydras covor that. I would use MOO, as he can pin- and he shoots every turn. Yes ik of all his dis-advantages, we need not to talk about it. The choice is yours.

Battle tank= good idea, i aprove

JAT (just a thought) snipers? They pin.

To counter Panzies some, pay 5pts more and have a Lascannon that does everything you want, but does it better at Str 9.

To be honest, give up the ghost on making your 5 man CCS a assault unit. If it was Straken in there, with Nork or 2 body Guards and geared out, people would still tell you to put him in a Chimera and stay the heck away from CC.

I will counter your list with this...

CCS - 205pts
Creed, Lascannon, Melta gun, Plasma gun, Camo Cloaks

Lord Commissar - 70pts
Boltgun

Platoon A

PCS - 50pts
4x Flamers

PIS - 115pts (blob A)
Commissar, 2x Power Weapons, Melta gun

PIS - 70pts (blob A)
Power Weapon, Melta Gun

Platoon B

PCS - 50pts
4x Flamers

PIS - 115pts (blob B)
Commissar, 2x Power Weapons, Melta gun

PIS - 70pts (blob B)
Power Weapon, Melta Gun

HWS - 105pts (Platoon B)
3x Lascannons

HWS - 75pts (Platoon B)
3x ACs

HWS - 75pts (Platoon B)
3x ACs

Put Creed up front in cover near the middle edge of your deployment zone to cover as much of the table as possible with his 24" Order range. Put the Lord back in cover near your home objective. Place your HWSs within 6" of the Lord and 24" of Creed and at least one on a home objective (they count as scoring) Use 'Bring it Down!' on the HWSs and the CCS to give them Twin Linked against Vehicles and Monsterous Creatures.

Use Tactical Genius to outflank Platoon A (blob and PCS) to hit your enemy's rear and burn out camping units on objectives. Move them up enough that they will get in Creed's 24" Bubble so if he has to he can issue 'For Cadia!' on them before they charge. This is optional, as just ramming two blobs down their throat and using 'BiD!' or 'For Cadia!' is just as effective, probably more effective. But if your facing a Vindicator or two and you lost turn 1, Outflanking them might be a good option. Also remember that Platoons count as a single unit on the Reserve chart (and Force Org), so you only have 1 'unit' outflanking, even though it is really 2 units. In Higher points games, doing this tactic with Al'Rahem and a Astropath gets you two power blobs hitting their rear fairly quick, hopefully from both flanks at the same time in a classic 'pincer' move.

The PCSs are just there to burn out units like Scouts and Rangers/Pathfinders. So make a bee-line for them, using 'Move! Move! Move!' on themselves to get there ASAP. If anything, use it on the blobs if they are within 12" to get them up in combat if they run early in the game. Since the Blobs have the Commissars, the Orders will work on them fairly effectivily.

I know I removed your Hydras, but I have two reasons why... now lance, lascannon, or melta weapons are practically worthless because you no longer have a vehicle to shoot at. Secondly, HWTs can get Orders giving you 3 TLed ACs vs 2 TLed ACs and a HB (if the Hydra is static). I am risking that the extra shots will make up losing the ability of the Auto Targeting System. Either way, they are 75pts a pop... your choice.

Hope this gives you some food for thought. Good luck either way!

Thanks Tom,

I think I might use a variation of your list, a few questions though.

Wouldn't Kell be more effective than the Lord Commissar and costing only 10 points more?

With the absence of Hydras, can this list fight Mech Dar effectively? The re-rollable 4+ cover is damn hard to beat.

Again, I appreciate your help

The Lord's Aura says if the HWS takes damage, they go off of the Lord's Ld 10 instead of their Ld 7. They also use the Lord's Ld 10 for Orders.

Kell uses Creed's leadership 10 to all units within 24" for Orders. He allows morale re-rolls for units within 12", though they would use their own Ld for the roll.

Order wise, Kell is more effective due to the further range. If the HWS gets shot or takes damage, the Lord is more effective due to the base Ld 10 vs a re-roll at Ld 7 (and probably less than that). That is why they actually work best together, so they re-roll Ld 10 morale tests and Kell allows Creed to issue orders to other units, like Vets, Rough Riders, and other units that don't have Commissars in or around them.

As for the Hydras vs HWSs, yeah, that is the choice. Hydra ignores the cover save that flat-out and speed-boost gives the unit, but that is it. It doesn't get to ignore Holo-fields or Energy fields. The Eldar do not have re-rollable 4+ cover saves, just the one. The only cover save they get is from moving flat-out or the normal 50% LoS rules.

In fact, all the Holo field does is force you to roll 2 dice on the damage chart (glance or Pen) and use the lowest dice.

The Energy field just reduces the Str of an attack down to 8 and ignores extra pen dice from all ranged attacks unless it is in CC or from the rear. This is only on Wave Serpents.

So yeah, I would risk the 4+ cover save for the extra two TLed shots. Eldar have no vehicles over AV 12, so you need 5s and 6s anyway to pen. But I am not saying this is better than the hydra, just an option instead of it.

Also keep in mind you can not embark or disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat-out. So they have to move up and wait till next turn to disembark the troops to do anything.

Hope this has given you the information your asking about to make your decision.

Im liking the outflanking buisness BlkTom, effective if he doesnt know thats what your doing. Pray he doesnt ask.
WAIT! its with creeed. You have to tell him your outflanking a platoon....So hes going to deploy differently for that rason alone=Mission harder. 20 guardsmen and a pcs in a fire tank= unable to kill much if enemy is expecting it?

Actually Tom, Eldar can get a re-rollable 4+ save by Fortune+ Flat out

Well Pazies, he doesn't know which side you are coming from so it could work out in your favor

True, but if you tell him that you gave scout to your platoon, and it doesnt start on the table. Then hes imeditatly gona think your outflanking on his board edge. You could always come in on the side, but if its near his base ares, then he is probibly still kinda prepared for that. Maybe not. You DO have to tell the othe rplayer what unit you gave scout right? or did i dream that up and mix it with a different rule from a different character?

Yeah, you can't hide units Panzie. Realisticly, they have full right to see your list. I play alot of non-WYSIWYG due to old models, so that isn't that big of a problem to me personally.

Fortune is only done by a Farseer on a single unit within 6" for one turn. The Farseer is then probably riding in the vehicle or they are all clustered together while moving. Either way, shoot at the non-Fortune ones first.

If your concerned about it and thus take the Hydras, I will suggest drop something else to get camo netting on it/them to give it a cover save while sitting in woods.

I will also point out, he can't /do/ anything if he is moving Flat-out. Can't shoot and they can't disembark troops.

Fortune can be re-used each turn.....unless my Eldar playing friend is more of a cheater than i already knew. :p

I agree, killing non fortune units first means easy (hopefully easy) units down, and double pain-in-but units left.

Instead of meltas for the PCS give those bad boys plasmas and make those necrons and marines shiver in their boots, or mechanical exoskeletons

I don't think I need plasmas in the PCS, the power weapons and meltas should be enough to take out Marines and Necrons.


Here is my revised list.

HQ

Company Command Squad : 65
Flamer x 3
Close Combat Weapon + Laspistol

Troops

Platoon Command Squad : 40
Flamer x 2
Close Combat Weapons + Laspistols

Infantry Squad : 115
Commissar
Power Weapon x 2
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 70
Power Weapon
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 115
Commissar
Power Weapon x 2
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 70
Power Weapon
Meltagun

Platoon Command Squad : 40
Flamer x 2
Close Combat Weapons + Laspistols

Infantry Squad : 115
Commissar
Power Weapon x 2
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 70
Power Weapon
Meltagun

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank : 150
Hull Heavy Bolter

Hydra Flak Tank x 2 : 150
Hull Heavy Bolters

TOTAL : 1000

3 blobs at 1K should be hard to take out. The Command Squads accompany the blobs and flame anything that comes close.

I still wanna keep the Hydras as I have tested them out and found them very effective. They can bust vehicles quite effectively and put down a lot of wounds on MEQs.

I find Creed too expensive for 1K games so I will probably use him in 1K+ games. Would Straken be better than him though?

That looks like a pretty sound 1000 point list to me. Any other tweaks are potentially minor in weapon loadouts etc, but see how it plays for you first I think ...

Of course! Will try to get in 1K game this weekend.

Also, do you think I would have a better chance of winning with my Veteran list?

HQ

Primaris Psyker : 70

Troops

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack

Hellhound : 150
Hull Multi-Melta
Smoke Launchers

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank ; 165
Hull Lascannon

Hydra Battery : 150
Hydra Flak Tank x 2
Hull Heavy Bolters

TOTAL ; 1000

I dunno, they both look pretty good actually. Could even replace the Psyker with a Lord Commissar.

Fortune can be re-used each turn.....unless my Eldar playing friend is more of a cheater than i already knew. :p

Last line of Fortune is "This unit re-rolls any failed saves it makes until the start of the next Eldar turn."

To last more than one turn, he would have to be within 6" of the vehicle and cast it again. Even Eldrad can only cover 4 vehicles.

hmm, will have to try both I suppose.

I would want to keep the Psyker, he adds a lot of firepower to the list.

Vet list is looking better to me.

Unfortunately, due to model problems, I won't be able to use Hydras for the tournament. Here is my Infantry list without Hydras.

HQ

Company Command Squad : 100
Lascannon
Astropath

Troops

Platoon Command Squad : 55
Flamer x 4
Krak Grenades

Infantry Squad : 115
Commissar
Power Weapon x 2
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 70
Power Weapon
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 115
Commissar
Power Weapon x 2
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 70
Power Weapon
Meltagun

Platoon Command Squad : 140
Al'Rahem
Meltagun x 4

Infantry Squad : 115
Commissar
Power Weapon x 2
Meltagun

Infantry Squad : 70
Power Weapon
Meltagun

Heavy Weapons Squad : 75
Autocannon x 3

Heavy Weapons Squad : 75
Autocannon x 3

This list will focus on getting up close to the enemy where I can lay waste to them with melta and power weapons. CCS and HWS stay back and bust transports and my blobs and PCS kill the guys that spill out of the transports. Simple enough.

This list also negates the main use of anti-tank weapons. And at 1000 points, this is a large amount of Guardsmen, way more than the enemy can kill at range before I get into CC.

What do you guys think?

Why the Astropath when you have no one deepstriking? I think a MoO would be a better option for your ranged CCS.

The Astropath is there for Al'Rahem so that he shows up early and on the right side.

Rico wrote:Why the Astropath when you have no one deepstriking? I think a MoO would be a better option for your ranged CCS.

Er... Al'Rahem? Besides, Master of Ordnance is at best worthless or at worse a hazzard to his own troops once he gets close to CC range. I would not sepd 30 points for two shots, 3 at best.

I would actually still try to squeeze in Creed into that list just to make those heavy weapons twin linked and to give your boys a shout out for Cadia. I think you can do it and keep the same number of Guard, you would jaust have 2 30 man blobs instead of 3 20 man blobs along with some trimming and possible reduction of the Astropath (drop Krak, change PCS's meltas to flamers). But you would also really want a Lord Commissar as well to keep those HWS in line and for Orders to them, and that is just to many points where you would lose men (lose a 115pt PIS) and be down to 50 men. At least your CCS Orders will be at a 9 with a BS 4.

Try a game or two with just that list and determind for yourself about the use of orders with it. Good luck!

Thanks Tom., ill try out the list today and give you guys my feedback later tonight


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gah, sorry guys but Ill have to try out the list next weekend, didn't manage to get a game of 40K in today.... damn Magic The Gathering..

BlkTom wrote:To last more than one turn, he would have to be within 6" of the vehicle and cast it again. Even Eldrad can only cover 4 vehicles.

I'm just going to pipe in and say that Psykers can no longer cast the same power more than once per turn. Check the latest GW FAQ. Sucks for Footdar players.

Your Veteran list looks the best. Vehicles are good in this game; 5+ bodies with no CC ability at all are not.

Yes, I think I will use the Veterans list, I've been tweaking with a lot lately. Here is the most recent tweak.

HQ

Primaris Psyker : 70

Elite

Marbo ; 65

Troops

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack

Vendetta Gunship : 130

Scout Sentinels : 120
Autocannon x 3

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank : 150
Hull Heavy Bolter

TOTAL ; 1000

Which brings me to your other comment ><

Guardsmen do have some CC ability. Power blobs are highly effective and are extremely durable. I have used them to beat some "CC" units before.

-Incubi w/ Archon and Haemonculus
- Vect with Wyches
- BA Assault Squads
- Ork Mobs
- Banshees

This is a list of things that I have beaten with Guardsmen in CC. In short, don't underestimate Guardsmen in CC. Those brave lads might surprise you

Jereziah wrote:Which brings me to your other comment ><

Guardsmen do have some CC ability. Power blobs are highly effective and are extremely durable. I have used them to beat some "CC" units before.

-Incubi w/ Archon and Haemonculus
- Vect with Wyches
- BA Assault Squads
- Ork Mobs
- Banshees

This is a list of things that I have beaten with Guardsmen in CC. In short, don't underestimate Guardsmen in CC. Those brave lads might surprise you

No, they don't. Not in any sort of competitive list anyway. I've seen IG Company Commanders beat Deamon Princes 1v1 but that doesn't make them good in CC.

What other unit can have the durability of a Power Blob and still have an insane amount of power weapon attacks while costing relatively cheap.

I recommend you read Ailaros battle reports, thats where I got my inspiration for using Power Blobs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just did another tweak of my Mech list. Do you think this list looks better or the previous one I posted?

HQ

Company Command Squad : 125
Flamer x 4
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Troops

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad : 155
Meltagun x 3
Chimera w/ Multilaser, Heavy Flamer

Fast Attack

Vendetta Gunship : 130

Vendetta Gunship : 130

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank : 150
Hull Heavy Bolter

TOTAL ; 1000