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HQ - CCS - creed, 2 meltas, HWT LC, Astropath, Officer of the fleet - chimera - 300pts
Troop - Vet squad - 3 meltas - chimera (scout ability thanx to creed) - 155pts
Troop - vet squad - 3 plasmas, HWT LC - chimera - 190pts
Troop - vet squad - 3 plasmas, HWT LC - chimera - 190pts
Elite - Stormtroopers - 2 meltas - 105pts
Elite - Stormtroopers - 2 meltas - 105pts
Elite - Stormtroopers - 2 meltas - 105pts
Fast - vendetta - 130pts
Fast - vendetta - 130pts
Fast - vendetta - 130pts
Heavy - Manticore - 160pts
Heavy - 2 Hydras in a squad - 150pts
Heavy - 2 Hydras in a squad - 150pts

Notes

* all chimeras have a multi laser and a heavy flamer
* i plan to deep strike the stormtroopers in capture games, but i may think about putting them inside the vendeetas for kill point games.
*if i go 2nd i may outflank with the vendetas. im also thinking about having the stormtroopers with them if its a kill points game.
*i gave the HQ 2 meltas for defensive purposes.


MY alternative list
HQ - CCS - creed, 4 meltas, Astropath - chimera - 265pts
Troop - vet squad - 3 plasmas, HWT LC - chimera - 190pts
Troop - vet squad - 3 plasmas, HWT LC - chimera - 190pts
Troop - vet squad - 3 plasmas, HWT LC - chimera - 190pts
Elite - Stormtroopers - 2 meltas - 105pts
Elite - Stormtroopers - 2 meltas - 105pts
Elite - Stormtroopers - 2 meltas - 105pts
Fast - banewolf/hellhound - 130pts ( i plan to give this scouts, thanks to creed)
Fast - vendetta - 130pts
Fast - vendetta - 130pts
Heavy - Manticore - 160pts
Heavy - 2 Hydras in a squad - 150pts
Heavy - 2 Hydras in a squad - 150pts

Questions

should i go with a scouting/outflanking hellhound or banewolf ?

it hurts not having all 3 of my vendettas on this list. should i make a fast slot comprising of 2 vendettas that are squaded? id have to lose something obviously, but what? the manticore? maybe have 1 hydra per heavy slot instead of 2 to save points?

I think the second list is the better of the two. I don't see a huge amount of point for Creed in this list as his ability is to give 4 orders per turn and you cannot do that as in mech, so you're paying some serious points just to outflank a single unit.

I would drop Creed as he doesn't fit this list but the rest is ok. I'd consider getting in a second Manticore in replacement of Hydras, you have plenty of ranged anti tank and the Manticore while can do anti tank is good for hordes too - something you lack.

yes, im not using him to his full potentual. however, i like his 24" radius for the the deepstriking stormtroopers, plus i can always get out of the chimeras when need be for commands such as bring it down or if they are running and i can tell them to regroup.

I honestly feel your list is flawed conceptually.

Three troops at 2k? Really? That is your first flaw of many in this list. I shoot three Chimeras and you can not win an objective game. 2/3s of the games right now are objective games. Your now winning less than half your games right off the bat.

I don't mind heavy weapons on Vets, but I hate heavy weapon Vets in Chimeras. Your not gaining mobility, your not gaining protection because your putting them at /more/ of a risk in a Chimera than out in cover much less in the open. You gain protection in a chimera in a melta rush list because those Vets /need/ to get in a certain range to be effective against vehicles, this puts them in small arms range of enemy units (bolters, lasguns, ect). The Chimera makes them immune to small arms fire. But everyone accepts the fact that if that Chimera gets blown up, those troops inside of it are dead or fleeing. This is why swarm tactics are used. Put more Chimeras out there that they can't stop them all before they get into range. Also, that load out you have is incredibly more effective /not/ moving (rapid fire and can actually use the HWT), so your /not/ rushing forward with this list, even though you have nothing else in your list that can take objectives. Every time one of your vets moves, your wasting 20pts on that lascannon, specially on a Outflanker.

If you insist on DSing/Outflanking units with scatterable artillery, specially units that are built to get in close (ala Melta STs), your either wasting the STs or the scatterable artillery (Manticore). Use one or the other.

If your going full gunline, ditch the Chimeras and save yourself 25pts a pop and get Sentries for a 3+ cover save. Then make sure you have artillery that can ignore cover saves. Something like a Collossus or two (replacing the Hydras). Ditch the Astropath and the Stormtroopers. You have 3 or less units outflanking, those 30pts can be spent elsewhere, like a MoO (specially if your CCS is static with a HWT). Ditch the Chimera on the CCS and go Camo Cloaks for 20pts, saving 35pts there. Now Creed is actually effective with your Vets and his own CCS with Orders. Get Kell and/or a Lord Commissar and your Orders are at Ld 10 instead of 8 for those vet units. The goal is to pound the enemy with Artillery and table them with a Gunline list. Any DSing/outflanking units risk getting hammered by your own shots, so limit it by removing those units or don't DS/Outflank with them.

If you want a heavy DS/Outflank list, change your heavy slots up. Maybe take a Vanquisher, Exterminator, or Punisher and use Creed to Outflank it and keep the Hydras... these are units that do not have scatterable attacks. Keep heavy weapon troops back to protect your Hydras with your CCS and camp a home objective, but realise you also need troops that can move forward and take objectives. To be honest, a platoon with a 20man blob and some HWSs can do this better than Vets defensivily, specially if you go AC heavy to make up for that BS 3. Use the Vets for the assault portion with the PCS armed with flamers. having 3-5 attacking units with meltas (and the PCS) that are scoring combined with the STs can do some damage.

Re-think about what you actually want to do with this list and build it to do it. But you need more scoring units...

Good luck, and I hope this has given you some food for thought.

Vincent305 wrote:yes, im not using him to his full potentual. however, i like his 24" radius for the the deepstriking stormtroopers, plus i can always get out of the chimeras when need be for commands such as bring it down or if they are running and i can tell them to regroup.

Like you said you're not using him to his full potential, which makes him a waste of points. Taking him just to give orders to three units isn't that good. Plus you never want to get out the tank, which btw you can issue orders from out a Chimera

Ironicly, since you can issue orders out of a Chimera, your still limited by the rule that you can't give orders to units in vehicles.

So Creed can not give himself orders if he is in the Chimera. Silly, isn't it.

Certainly is. It's too noisey, they cannot hear anything.

ok how about this list?

HQ - creed and kell, 1 melta - chimera
troop - platoon - Platoon command squad - 4 meltas - chimera
---------infantry squad - 20 man blob - 2 autocannon hwts
troop - HWT - 3 x lasconnons
---------HWT - 3 x lasconnans
troop - vet squad - 3 meltas - chimera
troop - vet squad - 3 meltas - chimera
elite - 5 stormtroopers - 2 meltas
elite - 5 stormtroopers - 2 meltas
fast - vendetta
fast - vendetta
fast - hellhound
heavy - leman russ executioner ( out flank )
heavy - hydra
heavy - hydra

* am i better off using something else other than 2 hydras for 2 heavy slots?
* should i deck out the stormtrooper differently?
* too many melta? should i put in some plasma? or are them lasconnans and the exectioner enough ap2?

Vincent305 wrote:

* am i better off using something else other than 2 hydras for 2 heavy slots?
* should i deck out the stormtrooper differently?
* too many melta? should i put in some plasma? or are them lasconnans and the exectioner enough ap2?

Eh... for the price, your not going to get much better.

Nah, STs are fine.

No such thing as to much melta.

I still hate seeing empty slots, but your tight on points. I would seriously consider dropping the hell hound to fill out those special weapon slots. Lets see, for your blob you could get a Commissar, 3 power weapons, 2 melta guns, and 2 melta bombs for 95pts. Then give the CCS 3 plasma guns, upgrading the one melta.

i got the hellhound there becuase i feel this list is weak against horde armies. maybe i should switch out the hydras for griffons.

I wouldn't switch to griffons for an all comers list, i'd rather get a collossus that can actually harm marines and ignore coversaves.

If your worried about hoard, get free heavy flamers on the hull of those Chimeras. If your further worried about it, exchange the 4 Melta Guns on the PCS (with that yucky BS 3) and get 2x Flamers, a Heavy Flamer, and a Melta gun... 3x Flamers and a Heavy Flamer (gaining 5pts), or 4x Flamers (gaining 20pts).

You have plenty of options for anti-hoard really... even just plain old Lasguns.