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Hey everyone!
Give me you thoughts on the list



HQ:
Company Command Squad: 240
Colonel Iron-Hand Straken
4 plasma gunners
Chimera
Tech Priest: 105
4 Servitors

Troops:
Vet Squad: 100: this is the one I'm planning on putting in the valkyrie.
3 Melt guns
Shotguns
Demolitioners

Veteran Squad 2: 140
3 Flamers
Shotguns
Chimera


Infantry Platoon: 255
Platoon Command Squad: 145
4 Plasma Guns
Chimer
Infantry Squad 1: 55
Grenade Launcher
Infantry Squad 2: 55
Grenade Launcher
Infantry Platoon 2: 160
Command Squad: 50
4 Grenade Launchers
Infantry Squad 3: 55
Grenade Launcher
Infantry Squad 4: 55
Grenade Launcher

Fast Attack
Valkyrie: 140
Rocket Multi Pods
Side Sponson Heavy Bolters
Sentinel 1:
Plasma Cannon
Rough Rider Squadron: 95
1 Sgt.
Plasma Pistol
5 Rough Riders
2 Melta Guns
CC weapons

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle tank: 205
Hull Mounted lass canon
Plasma cannon Side Sponsons
Leman Russ Battle tank: 205
Hull Mounted lass canon
Plasma cannon Side Sponsons
Leman Russ Battle tank: 245
Hull Mounted lass canon
Plasma cannon Side Sponsons
Commander Pask

I believe I am at 1995 with this list.
I guess I'll give the RR Sgt. Melta bombs? lol

Let me know what you think about this list.

I think it may be a good idea to put straken in the valkyrie

The Tech Priest would stay behind the leman russes and repair them

The guard with grenade launchers are really just to piss everyone off by giving my Russes cover saves while being able to fire and move if need be- objective games
They also are really cheap this way and are not just buying a 4+ save for 3 tanks

Why take Straken here? A techpriest? Grenade launchers? 205 point LRBTs????? Drop some of the unnecessary junk to buy more units. It looks like a 1500 point list but at 2000 points.

I actually have good reasons for 3/4 of what you're telling me to change, good ones too.

Straken assaults and kills what he assaults. When he charges he gets 6 strength 7 attacks all of which are power weapon attacks. He can issue two orders which is a nice side note. His entire squad gets furious charge and he's a rude slap in the face for an assaulting army.

Tech Priest: Repairs the Leman Russes, Sentinel, Valkyrie, and Chimeras preventing them from becoming useless. Generally sticks to the leman russes though

A 205 Point leman russ becuase it points and kills multiple units- example. Transport drops a unit. The tank fires at the unit killing the entire squad with the battle cannon along with the skimmer, finishes up with the lascannon, and the plasma cannons scatter or clean up. Literally they kill one unit per turn not to mention how much fire they absorb aided by the cover saves. The one thing that has stayed the same for the past 5 years of my guard armies are expensive and painful leman russ battletanks. I have never seen or used a more useful unit in any army.

Grenade launchers are cheap and ranged, so I don't have to foot slog to use a flamer and I don't have enough points to get plasma guns.

The grenade launcher guardsman again are essentially cover saves that can shoot. It may be a good idea to drop commander pask for 4 Autocannons/Heavy bolters although I like Pask.

I don't understand why people post lists and then quote a units rules verbatim when trying to defend their choices. Everyone knows what Straken can do, everyone knows what a basic Infantry Squad can do.

Straken assaults and kills what he assaults. When he charges he gets 6 strength 7 attacks all of which are power weapon attacks. He can issue two orders which is a nice side note. His entire squad gets furious charge and he's a rude slap in the face for an assaulting army.

Except he doesn't. First of all, you're taking Plasma Guns in an 'assault' unit, a total contradiction when you look at the rapid fire rules. Secondly, this is not a scary CC unit. Nothing in the Imperial Guard roster is scary in CC, not even blobs.

Infantry aren't tall enough to give LRBT cover saves. Vehicles don't recieve cover saves under the same conditions as Infantry do.

Anwyay, the whole list is full of superfluous upgrades and inefficient units. What are all those Infantry squads giving you? A single S6 shot at 55 points very squad...wow. You have a total of 7 vehicles, I wouldn't count on any of them being alive after turn 3 agaisnt a competent opponent.

The LRBT are far, far too expensive. Have a look at the Manticore; it's 45 points cheaper and does everything that your LRBT can do but better.

Your entire long range shooting consists of three lascannons and three battle cannons, which is not good enough for ANY list at this points level, let alone Imperial Guard. When Chaos can outshoot you you've done something wrong.

#1 apparently he doesn't know what the unit does as he asked why. I responded with what the unit does because apparently it needed saying for some odd reason


#2 I already fixed that before you posted but the edit didn't go up fast enough apparently. I saw the rapid fire problem. That is one of the reasons why I post here, pointing out mistakes like that is very helpful when not done to try and be a complete jerk.
He can solo a fex man, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. and you apparently haven't seen him in close combat before.
While they may not have too many models to be terrified of there are models to be worried about.

And Actually, infantry are tall enough to obscure a tank. Especially if they are Vostroyan, which I appologize i did fail to mention.


The tanks stay almost completely undamaged til turn 3, where they start getting imoblized. The sentinel to date has never died. Neither have any of the leman russes or valkyrie.
Again, goes back to the fact the the infantry do give cover saves and even more so when they are vostroyans.
The rules for the cover save are to obscure 50% of the tank and a squad of vostroyans pretty much covers everything but the turret.
And vostroyans are legal to play as they are not OOP

The mantecorp Does not do what the leman russ does, it loses the AP 3 and the armor that makes the leman russ so hard to blow up
I'v played for 5 years and this tank gets me a kill point a turn guaranteed. It also sucks up hits like no tomorrow.
Btw, some of the guys I beat are tourni winniers- so don't pull the competent opponent thing on me.

Notice how there are several chimeras that move guys close enough to do things
Apparently you've never seen a mechanized guard list before. Also, this is a partially experimental list and I was looking for polite feedback, not some jerk who had a bad day.
The termConstructive criticism mean anything to you?

Overall I give your answer a 1, you were able to point out that I am not able to play the range game but you absolutely fail to see how the army would be played. Does the term trolling mean anything to you either?
A psudo assaulty guard army that can move and fire a lot of rounds is nice.
There are commands that would give the veterans furious charge so they would charge into combat with 40 attacks per squad at strength 4 initiative 4.

Also, I forgot to note they have shotguns, another dumb mistake.

Please get back to me if you have any constructive criticism that might actually help.

CG gamer wrote:
Please get back to me if you have any constructive criticism that might actually help.

If you intend to melee with it under normal circumstances, it has no place in an IG list. On top of that, he's not exactly wrong about your list.

My most regular opponent plays Mech Guard. This is his 1500 point list:

CCS, 4 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Astropath, Chimera
Veteran Squad, 3 Meltaguns, Autocannon, Chimera
Veteran Squad, 3 Meltaguns, Autocannon, Chimera
Veteran Squad, 3 Meltaguns, Autocannon, Chimera
Veteran Squad, 3 Meltaguns, Autocannon, Chimera
Veteran Squad, 3 Plasma Guns, Autocannon, Chimera
Vendetta
Vendetta
Manticore

Scary, no? When I say your list is bad and doesn't scare anyone, I say it after playing that monstrosity over and over again.

Normal cadian/jungle infantry cannot provide cover to LRBT, if you're taking forge world models that circumnavigate this then that's your own prerogative.

I see exactly how your army is supposed to be play. The Mech sits back and shoots, the infantry move forward and die. I also see its many, many limitations - including, but not limited to:
- Mech Guard (real Mech guard), like the list posted above. Lots of Heavy Flamers for your bare infantry squads, plenty of Meltaguns/Lascannons/S10 blasts for your tanks.
- Mech Eldar/Dark Eldar. Please explain how your 24" weapons are going to get in range of fast skimmers with 36" range? Lance weapons don't care about Av14.
- Any strong Tau list played by a competant player. S10 Ap1 doesn't about Av14, suicidal Kroot + JSJ Crisus Suits take care of the rest.
- Any Space Marine list with a Land Raider deathstar. You have two squads with Meltaguns...none of which are particularly difficult to take down. None of your Infantry Squad have anything to stop them from being tank shocked...do you see where I'm going with this? Vulkan lists in particular would do well.
- Ork Battlewagon spam. They want to get close as well, the only difference is they're actually good in CC, while IG are not. Again, note the lack of weapon on your infantry squad to avoid being tank shocked.

Again, I say this out of experience. My IG friend played lists like yours when he first started and got smashed (by me, and others) over and over again.

By the way, a lack of Meltaguns/Meltabombs on your infantry squads means that tanks can tank schock through them, avoiding any bubblewrapping you have set up around your tanks. It also forces the Infantry squads being tank shocked into nice little template shaped formations.

You asked for thoughts on your list, I'm giving you them. What's the problem?


Edit: Allow me to provide some more constructive feedback though, in the form of a new list. I'll try to keep it as close to your original as possible, at least model-wise.

CCS, 4 Meltaguns, Astropath, Chimera - 175
Veteran Squad, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera - 165
Veteran Squad, 3 Meltaguns, Chimera - 165
PCS, 2 Meltaguns, Autocannon, Chimera - 115
Infantry Squad, Meltagun, Autocannon, Chimera - 125
Infantry Squad, Meltagun, Autocannon, Chimera - 125
Vendetta - 130
Vendetta - 130
Leman Russ Battle Tank, Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 180
Leman Russ Battle Tank, Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 180

More long range shooting, more Chimeras, less superfluous upgrades. Points from memory, I think the Heavy Bolter sponsons might actually be a bit cheaper.

@unbeliever87
You've got the points wrong on the LRBTs they're 170 with HB sponsons.
cheers

OP is a [see forum posting rules]

@unbeliever: id say your criticism is very constructive, and ceratinly to the point, and imo correct.

The 3xmelta vets + chim are only 155 pts

@OP: "The sentinel to date has never died. Neither have any of the leman russes or valkyrie" ?! What? What are your opponents doing/fielding? and HOW has any of them won any tournies if they fail to EVER take out a SINGLE vehicle....(i mean how is that even possible, they dont bring lascannons, missile launchers, autocannons or melta?)

Your valkyrie ought to go down in the first shooting phase of the opponent.. a single av12 vehicle high in the air. its a obvious target, carrying 3 of your 5 meltas...

So if your opponents really have never taken out your russes, valk or sentinel.. it pretty much doesnt matter WHAT you bring...

I like the idea about bubble wrapping your tanks, i think you should take the advice about meltaguns though. I would include a commisar too and join squads. Persoanlly i would take autocannons too so they can act as a firebase.

What armies are you generally playing against?

Yeah I thought they might be, cheers. Points are from memory. The Vets originally had Autocannons, but I decided to remove them to save points, but then forgot the change the points cost.

CG gamer wrote:

Straken assaults and kills what he assaults. When he charges he gets 6 strength 7 attacks all of which are power weapon attacks. He can issue two orders which is a nice side note. His entire squad gets furious charge and he's a rude slap in the face for an assaulting army.

5 man squad, T 4, no eternal warrior, only Init 4 on a charge. Really, that is not a fear inspiring CC unit versus say a 10 man Marine Assault squad with a fist. Who wins that fight? Marines. Oh yeah, your in a Chimera, your not charging from that unless you dismount before moving, from the rear, with the Chimera in your way. I agree with the Melta vs plasma. And if your gonna do it, hell or high water... might as well give yourself Kell and his kitchen sink of weapon choices plus the Standard. Any CCS gives two orders, that is not special. Special is Creed with 4 Orders per turn, one of them can be 'For Cadia!'. If you insist on getting in CC with Straken, buy up some body guards and ditch the Chimera.

CG gamer wrote:A 205 Point leman russ becuase it points and kills multiple units- example. Transport drops a unit. The tank fires at the unit killing the entire squad with the battle cannon along with the skimmer, finishes up with the lascannon, and the plasma cannons scatter or clean up. Literally they kill one unit per turn not to mention how much fire they absorb aided by the cover saves. The one thing that has stayed the same for the past 5 years of my guard armies are expensive and painful leman russ battletanks. I have never seen or used a more useful unit in any army.

You seem to be using your Russes wrong. You can not fire on a transport with one weapon and use other weapons to shoot the troops inside. All weapons that can shoot can only shoot at one target per turn. Lumbering Behemoth only allows you to fire one weapon with your turret weapon (plus defensive weapontry). Either that or your discription is not very clear, unless your aim is to catch both in the blast marker. But the rules there say the hole in the middle have to be centered on the fig or the vehicle. If you do not get the center hole over the vehicle, your weapon does half strength against that hull facing the marker touches, per the rules on page 60 BRB. Your claim of cover saves may be... generous. They only have to see over 50% of the vehicle to ignore any cover and Smoke is for one turn.

Personally, I do not want Russes stationary to fire all of my weapons. Weapons your not firing when moving are wasted points. Cut to the chase and get Executioners with a hull Lascannon for your 'multiple' targets for the same cost. Drop the hull Lascannon and go back down to 190pts and your that much better against heavy infantry. Putting damage on them with the HB (which is also 36"), even at a 2+ save, still makes them roll and avoid 1s.

CG gamer wrote:Grenade launchers are cheap and ranged, so I don't have to foot slog to use a flamer and I don't have enough points to get plasma guns.

Flamers on Vets are a waste. Plasmas on PCSs are a waste. Your wasting precious BS 4 with template weapontry and the BS 3 guys have the expensive weapons. Personally, I like giving my PCS 4x Flamers or 3x Flamers with a Heavy Flamer.

CG gamer wrote:The grenade launcher guardsman again are essentially cover saves that can shoot. It may be a good idea to drop commander pask for 4 Autocannons/Heavy bolters although I like Pask.

Keep Pask if you want, he is a MC killer and gives the Russ BS 4. He is a target and a luxury buy, only grab him if you have the extra points.

Grenade Launchers are dogs except in rare, rare cases. It looks like you have two twenty man blobs, but lack Commissars (at least one for each blob), power weapons, meltas, and melta bombs. Specially when your running Straken, it is criminal to neglect your troops like that but bling out your tanks. Drop the demolitions from the Vets, even if your plan is to suicide them in. To be frank, you don't have the points for it. If you insist on doing that, just get a SWS with a demo charge and two meltas for 75pts. With 3 Chimeras, one of which is carring Straken, seem to also be a waste. You need the points and that is 165pts that could be equipment for your blobs, maybe make them 30 man blobs or add in a 3rd 20 man blob. Sentinel with a Plasma Cannon is a waste really due to the BS 3 and easy to get AV 10 side shots. I would just ditch it to spend the points elsewhere.

I personally run Rough Riders. After the charge it is difficult to figue out what you want to do once the lances are used up. I can dig the melta guns, but it is costing you lance shots on a five man squad. I do not think the risk is worth it for 'Get's Hot!' on the Plasma Pistol to lose that sergeant, but your not losing your lance for it at least. Melta bombs might be the way to go for anti-vehicle then the melta guns... you do have a 6"+12" range for Charge. Your unit should only be 85pts. I would consider a second 5 man unit of Rough Riders, but do remember that Furious Charge can not change static bonuses like the lances.

I would rather have a Vendetta (or two) for long range AT fire over a Valkyrie, which is a primary anti-infantry vehicle. After that, getting some HWSs with ACs and a Lord Commissar wouldn't be a terrible idea, as light AT (besides the Russes) to pop transports wouldn't be a bad either.

Good luck either way.

CG gamer wrote:#1 apparently he doesn't know what the unit does as he asked why. I responded with what the unit does because apparently it needed saying for some odd reason

I didn't ask those questions for myself. I asked for you.

CG gamer wrote:
Please get back to me if you have any constructive criticism that might actually help.

I gave it to you. Ask yourself what does the things I mention bring to your list? Straken is a waste of 95 points. Tech priest wasting 105. Two 205 point LRBTs and one 245 point LRBT? Cmon man...

I said it before and I'll say it again. Drop and/or trim down the useless upgrades and buy more units that can actually do something. There are lots of options. Other posts above me have elavorated on this. This list is going to get mauled at 2000 points as it stands unless your playing against the wall.

I will confirm that Unbeliever has an IG-playing friend who once ran crappy lists, as I am that friend. That being said, everything he mentioned is spot on, and you should listen to him.

If, however, you really truly desire to run special characters such as Straken and Pask, then I recommend running your CCS with meltas, because as already mentioned Plasmas are rapid-fire.

Regarding Pask, you have two options: Put him in a Punisher with HB sponsons and watch MCs cry as they melt into a puddle of goo, or put him in a Vanquisher and pray you're not unlucky with that one single devastating shot. Neither of these I've tested myself, so I can't really comment on their effectiveness, but on paper they seem sound, although pricey. If you were looking to run a lean, mean tournament machine, however, then you might as well forget both of those characters for the sake of trimming the fat.