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Just making it ready for 'Ard Boys, looking for some opinions and comments.

Dante

Librarian w/ JP
-Fear
-Shield/might/sword (not sure yet)

Honor Guard w/ JPs
-4 Meltaguns
-4 Flamers
- Priest w/ bolter

Honor Guard w/ JPs
-4 Meltaguns
-4 Flamers
- Priest w/ bolter

Sanguinary Guard
- 2 I.Pistols

Sanguinary Guard
- 2 I.Pistols

Sanguinary Guard
- 2 I.Pistols

Sanguinary Guard
- 2 I.Pistols

Sanguinary Guard
- 2 I.Pistols

Sanguinary Guard
- Stock

10 Vanguard Veterans w/ JPs
- Sgt PF
- 3 PFs


Any thoughts, opinions, grips, compliments, suggestions, questions? Thanks for looking.

well even though there is a bunch of punch and anti-tank....the oppenent is gonna shoot the crap out of your untis with all the ap1 and ap2 weapons they have as you have no tanks, so it might could work, but im not so sold on it, and not really sure where this list could go other than being changed around completly....sorry i couldn't help, but i think it might just die honestly

you have a good template but my suggestion for a dantewing would be


infernus pistols are fun little toys but if i had a suggestion for sg have them take a pf for cheap and if you must cut one pistol


libby should always take a shield and in this case unleash rage for more pw awesomeness or fear to demoralize and hope for a fallback


shorten the honor guard... 10 espically tooled honor guards is redundant also 2 squads of the same set up is even more dragging


if you cut 5 honor guard make them only have flamers or all melta guns


cut the vanguard into 5 each with a pf and if you can fit it a couple pws but only last if you have pts left over


if i had to suggest an addition it would be a couple priests


those separate priests are 75 pts each but a 5 model unit even with artificer armor are going to see some dakka


taking out the honor guard should give you a chunk of pts left my suggestion is devastators , priests (at least 2) and more vanguard units that should make this list pie...or cake

hope this helps

@ Chaosfan: Honestly, most people underestimate the Bling Wing, so I'm not surprised. You have to see/play it to understand its real capabilities. I like using a list that takes skill to play correctly.

@ L.Infected: You make good suggestions. I was toying with the idea of swapping one pistol for a fist in each squad. If I do that though, Im going to be short on reliable melta death, so Id probably leave both honor guards in. I also tend not to rely on priests so much. I already have have 2 in there that cannot be singled out in CC, but the most I use them for is FC. The FnP is less effective with them because they tend to just shed most small arms fire with their Artificer Armor, and the shots that get past that ignore the FnP anyways, so Im kinda on the fence with the priests. But overall, you make good points.

This is true and I forgot that they can't be singled out ... If they're in the unit to begin with

Any ways it's a good list and I can see the honor guard,s place now but tbh I would take them in 5s

10 is alot and is also alot of pts

Do this with the vanguard also and cut them to 1 pf

Vangaurds are great but more of them is better

hence more targets and less headache from pie plates

I think it could work definatly not something to snicker at

I fully understand your point with the vanguard. My reason for having 1 squad of 10 over 2 of 5, so I can have them all come in on the same turn and combat squad on the drop. Im not too concerned about missing the roll and having them delayed as much as I am about having them come in the same turn. Re reason I have four PFs is so I can have 2 in each combat squad and multi assault transports castled together. Anyways, those are my reasons for th vanguard outfitting.

The honor guard I have because of my origional lists lack of AT and horde control. I kept them in because they are a good guarantee for a dead vehicle, or a lot of dead guys from a large squad. They work well and draw fire away from my sanguinary guard, which are scoring. I could definately see dropping them for another unit or two of vanguard and 1-2 priests though. I'll have to try it out. Thanks again.

The vanguard cannot combat squad when arriving from reserves. No unit can unless you are doing so from a drop pod. You will need to split them into 2 units of 5 to achieve this.

INAT FAQ says otherwise. And thats what we use in my local area.

Look here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/inat_faq.jsp

Fair enough,

Just remember that in other areas that go do not go by INAT that you cannot do that.

I fully understand that. The only other place I play at is Adepticon, and that uses the INAT. But yes I will check with the local area players when I go somewhere new. Thanks for the advice. Any opinion on the list?

Caboose wrote:INAT FAQ says otherwise. And thats what we use in my local area.

Look here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/inat_faq.jsp

Why would outside rules be allowed at GW sponsored tournament? I'm pretty sure the were not allowed at Throne of Skulls. So the store hosting the tournment should not be using someone elses faq. Doing so would cause unfair advantage since it is not being done all over.

The INAT faq is not outside rules. It has all of the GW faq rulings included in it, but also addresses many more contentious areas that GW has not addressed yet. It is more like the TO is telling you in advance how he will rule on the given rules questions when a tournament uses the INAT faq. Everyone having equal access to know in advance how certain points of contention will be ruled makes the game more fair for everyone.

So I took some advice and split the VanVets into two 5man units. Ill give it a try. Any more recommendations for psychic powers, aside from the standard internet response of "rage and shield!"? Has anybody tried Blood Boil or Shackle Soul. I know initially they look pretty terrible, but has anyone tried using them in several games to see if there is any actual in game merit?

With a list like this, Fear of the darkness would be excellent against a lot of things that normally scare you.

Indeed, that is my primary power. Im looking for a secondary power to take that will be useful. My army is too small to be kept close enough for shield, it'll get me killed. And the Sanguinary Guard have master crafted weapons, which make Rage medicre at best. Im looking at Might, Sword, Blood Boil, and Shackle Soul. I would also consider Smite. But I really want to hear from people who have used BB and SS, and know if they have their place and can be legit options.

blood boil imo is useless

you get a pistol range power that id a model...cool against one manned mc squads, but by the time he gets within 12" he'll ether be short manned or thrown to shreds and thats even if it goes off or they are 2+

and i find under a 5 to be more degrading half the time you will be within 9 to 11 backed up by statistics

shakle soul sounds fun but i feel is meh

a 24" power is a decent power and knowing the victim takes a ld test (not a morale test...just for ques) every time they want to make an action is painstaking annoying but could work if they relay on a sole phase


might is great on libby dreads more attacks = more boom

sword is useful only on mephiston... a pf at sth 10 is meh if you already have a pf in the squad to begin with

smite is every sm power and for good reason sth 4 ap 2 doesnt cut it even for ultras

, you can get through terminator armor... if you can wound them

Good to know. That's kinda the breakdown of what I was looking for. Thank you. Ill test Shackle Soul a few times and see.

One problem with Might of Heroes (except for Furioso Librarians) is that Unleash Rage adds almost as much on average to the Librarian himself.

On the charge, a Librarian has 4 attacks. With Unleash Rage, he averages 3.56 hits against WS4. With Might of Heroes, he averages 4 hits. So, Might is better if he's alone, but not by that much.

Now, a unit of Sanguinary Guard averages 9.6875 hits on the charge against WS4, without the benefit from UR. With UR, they average 11.25. Since the Librarian's hits are more-or-less equivalent to theirs, UR is a better power for a Libby that runs with a unit of SG than Might.

By the way, if the Librarian hits on 4s, Unleash Rage and Might both result in an average of 3 hits. UR is clearly better here. Against WS3, Sanguinary Guard average 12.35 hits without UR, and 13.33 with it, so Unleash Rage is still better.

Now, without the charge, the Librarian averages 2.67/3.33 hits against WS4, 2.25/2.5 against WS5, while Sanguinary Guard average 6.875 hits against WS4, 8.52 against WS3 without UR, 7.5 and 8.89 with it. So Libby + SG + UR = 11.56 against WS3, 10.17 against WS4, 9.75 against WS5, while Libby + SG + Might = 11.85 against WS3, 10.205 against WS4, 9.375 against WS5. So, without the charge, Might is slightly better if the SG squad is full, and keeps getting better as they take casualties. Another benefit to UR, though, is that if the Librarian gets killed before the squad swings, the benefit from Might is lost, but the benefit from UR still applies to any survivors.

So, if you want to use Might, it probably would be just a little worse than using UR, so you wouldn't really be hurting yourself if you'd like to be a bit different.

Good stuff. Thanks for the break down. And this is all assuming I attach him to a sanguinary guard unit. While I agree that its the best choice, and thats usually where he goes, there may be a game some time where he would better benefit one of the HG or VV squads. Not likely, but possible. Anyways, thanks again for that.

Yeah, Unleash Rage would buff an Honor Guard or VV squad more, in a relative sense, as you wouldn't be counterfitting Master Crafted weapons then.

I think SG would be quite a bit better if they simply had Power Weapons instead of the Glaives. Unless you have a Storm Shield, a Glaive is worse in all situations than a Power Weapon.

I can argue that since sg can't take ss

Then glaives are better since they are two handed master crafted weapons that if I'm not mistaken grant 1 hit reroll

And to compare to a regualar pw that don't grant a bit reroll

That's out of the question and thrumps itself

I think he means that they should have been given the option to take a power weapon and SS.

Didn't think about that lol

As much as we would like to have them take ss if isn't fluff material and there's only one person to blame for that

What I meant is the Glaive is a worse weapon than a Power Weapon, as 1 extra attack is better than 1 re-roll. If you roll a miss, they're worth the same, if you hit with every attack, the extra attack is clearly better.

However, I just realized that the Angelus Boltgun isn't a Pistol, so the Glaive is actually better, as having a normal Power Weapon wouldn't give you the extra attack. So I was wrong.

Being able to take Storm Shields would make SG better, and compare well with TH/SS Terminators. 5 points cheaper, more mobile, a decent shooting attack, swinging at Initiative and you can Sweep, for a cost of a less effective weapon against hard targets.

Actually, Storm Shields would make Nipple Wing ridiculously good, since you could still give a guy or two a Power Fist. It would be like a fast version of Deathwing.

i would aggree that dantewing would be beast with ss

if this was so i for sure would field

oh well hope it get through to 6th

I believe that if every SG model could take SS then it would be broken. 2+/3++ + FNP moving 12" for an entire army is absolutely insane. But not being able to take SS really kills them. I think being able to take 2 per squad would be good and not broken.

Sanguinary Guard with SS would be gross indeed. But I also think they dont need it. What they need is some sort of standard inv save, like a 5++ or even a 6++. Give them all combat shields included in their cost and that would balance their cost enough. Throw in that and +1 st on their glaives to make them similar but different to relic blades, maybe give them a 10 pt option of hand flamers like the other pistols and give them a squad cap at 10 not 5, then I think they'd be a really attractive option for all the haters.

i like the cap to ten but isnt fluff accurate damn wardism

i have to agree a 5++ would make them boss but ss would beastify them

i also like the idea of +1 sth pws but sth 6 pws on charge sounds like they need to be 230ish pts or just make them guard broken

hand flmaers are suppose to be there...

Played mission 1 tonight with the above list. I won the roll and gave him first turn. He conceded by the end of his turn 3.

What happened was, I got every unit but one IP sang guard squad, and my traitor model (whom I left unattached and in normal reserves). After I dropped, I popped a baal and killed several members of an assault squad with attached priest, and got Heroic Intervention off with both squads. One went into a 6 man dev squad and easily came out on top, the other (which had red thirst) multi assaulted with one pfst into another stationary baal, and the rest into the aforementioned weakened assault squad. He failed to do anything to me, and I exploded the baal, killing one vvet, and 1 assault marine from a different squad. Then the other fist punched his priest out and the squad fled off the board. Boom 4 KP (as one marine was left from the dev squad falling back through my maze of sanguinary guard that deep struck. I deepstruck 9 squads dangerously close to his units and had only one mishap which he got to place.

He killed 7 models of mine his whole turn, and was about to take punches from all 4 VVet pfists which he multi-assaulted, and he conceded.

I played one turn.

Not to rub it in or anything, but I played out my tactics perfectly, had good scatter rolls, subpar shooting, and decent cc rolls. Over all, a short game with a favorable outcome.