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Hq:
Fateweaver
Bloodthrister UM,Botbg

Elites:
2x4 Crushers full upgrades
1x6 fiends UM

Troops:
2x5 Pbs
1x5 Horrors with Bolt/Changeling
1x17 BLs

Fast Attack:
3x8 Hounds

Heavy:
3 MOT/Bolt Princes

Hounds and Fiends = Fast Assualts, Princes = Anti Light Armor and Assualt, Pbs/Horrors = Obejectives?tarpits/Changeling and bolt, Fatecrusher=Deathstar.

That I think is as gross as it gets really, I can beat GK with all the blessing of the blood gods and have a lot of speed for mech armies and bolts. Only iffy part is the troops, the PBs are fine (maybe a thrid squad, but no one everyone remember my hidden objectives anyway) and the horrors with changeling are just a good price for what they do, a bolt and defensive ability from a extremely threating unit, but the BLs are the kicker. Does the 17 man squad work, or is it too random and slow and die fast, and what could I replace it with?


Please give any comments on the list, be harsh im trying to get this prefect.
Thanks.

What points level are you aiming for here? Can't do much evaluating without knowing that.

Quick note however, I simply don't get Bolt princes. You're making a CC monster into a shooting platform. Instead, why not gear it towards close combat?

DarkCorsair wrote:What points level are you aiming for here? Can't do much evaluating without knowing that.

Quick note however, I simply don't get Bolt princes. You're making a CC monster into a shooting platform. Instead, why not gear it towards close combat?

Its 2500 point value for ard boyz, the only reason why I have bolt princes is for the point save from MON CC princes, I prefer MON princes, but I have to drop all the hounds and some other minior tweeks with PBS and the BLs to get it even. Basically I have have 3 Shooty princes with 24 hounds OR 3 CC princes..... Just a really hard decision but personal have thinking about it for months, the wings are just too expensive and the other ponits can be spent elsewhere for more threat and speed to help where the army needs it most.

Here is my few cents on the matter.

If you are gearing toward a competitive list, plaguebearers are really the only good choice for troops. 5 Pink horrors are just going to get killed. Bloodletters at high point values are mostly useless, but if you have a fancy way to keep them with fateweaver they might be useful with hellblades.

-Bolt princes are an odd choice here, why are you making an MC a shooting platform that will be all but ignored considering that one extra bolt just doesn't really justify a daemon prince. MoN them and let them eat face.

-Does a bloodthirster really need UM? Str 7 should be more than good enough for pretty much anything you are putting him up against.

On a personal note, I think 3 squads of hounds are overkill and that 2 should be more than sufficent for your purposes.

Black Rage wrote:Here is my few cents on the matter.

If you are gearing toward a competitive list, plaguebearers are really the only good choice for troops. 5 Pink horrors are just going to get killed. Bloodletters at high point values are mostly useless, but if you have a fancy way to keep them with fateweaver they might be useful with hellblades.

-Bolt princes are an odd choice here, why are you making an MC a shooting platform that will be all but ignored considering that one extra bolt just doesn't really justify a daemon prince. MoN them and let them eat face.

-Does a bloodthirster really need UM? Str 7 should be more than good enough for pretty much anything you are putting him up against.

On a personal note, I think 3 squads of hounds are overkill and that 2 should be more than sufficent for your purposes.

I know that PBs are the most competitive troop, but really I find 2 to by plenty, hide 2 objectives DPs on them and your opponents forgets about them, believe it or not it works lol. The Horrors are there just for the changeling and a bolt for fun, only 100 points. I see what you mean about the BLs, that is what im debating on really whether or not it will work, after I drop the a hound squad becasuse I also agree with 3 being a overkill Ill see what I can do with the BLs, maybe drop them also. UM for the bloodthrister was to instant kill HQ in combat without charging, but ill drop that too.

Know the ultimate question! Its is A LOT of points for wings, and I don't know if it is worth it. It is 215 points for one MON Princes, and 140 Points for one MOT/Bolt prince (remember is still a DP in CC, slow but still a DP). That is 75 points per princes so im saving 225 points to have them as a slow shooting platform that will soon be in assault, and while walking behide fatecrusher those DP with MOT are extremely hard to kill.

Hostly, this debate on the DPs comes up every time I post a list lol. Only reason why Im leaning toward MOT/Bolt princes are like I said before, the points you save for them being MOT is huge and can be used elsewhere to get other fast units such as my hounds....etc.

Thanks.

Keep the Comments coming.


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Sorry typed that a little fast, haha. Hostly???

If you don't know specifically how to use BLs in your list drop them, they are too easy to gun down.

I understand the dilemma about princes. If you have a good idea about how you are going to use them and they work for you then do it.

as a side note, the last two years 'Ard boyz have had missions that require at least 4 scoring troops to massacare. More PBs might be a good addition.

Ill put that into consideration, I know how to use letters, honestly the letters are a huge threat that has to be dealt with, if not it will kill 500 points of a army each time it assualts, but the flip side is it takes a good amount of anti infantry weapons to kill 15 BLs, even better if next to the fateweaver. The letters are there to make them chose which they want to be kill by, becasue they aren't kill both, instead of just have my deathstar (fatecrusher there) I have the second deathstar as my 15 BLs.

What do you drop first? How do you split your army up for the first turn arrival?

I kinda like your idea behind the MOT princes, makes sense to me..shos, shot, shot and then assault. Having a 4++ isn't bad either on a prince. IMO

Hey CannedKhorne,

Your list is as hard as possible @ 2500 points. I think it's spot on. If I where to think of some things, I'd change the following:

333 Fateweaver
255 Bloodthrister, Botbg

200 4 Crushers full upgrades
200 4 Crushers full upgrades
190 6 Fiends, UM

75 5 Pbs
75 5 Pbs
100 5 Horrors with Bolt/Changeling
256 16 BLs

120 8 Hounds
120 8 Hounds
102 6 Seekers of Slaanesh

160 MOT/Bolt/Gaze Prince
160 MOT/Bolt/Gaze Prince
150 MOS/IH/Pavane

2496

This doesn't make the list any better, but it adds some stuff I like. UM on the Thirster is too many points for my taste and I really like 1 Pavane somewhere...

Your list is great though, as I said. I think it's not really possible to make a harder Daemons list at 2500 points. (Although something like 2 KoS, 18 Fiends, 72 Daemonettes and 30 Seekers fits in 2500 points and would be great fun! :-) )

Good Luck!

Cilithan

Is the fast attack a little of an overkill? 2 Hounds squads of 10 may be enough with the fiends/thristers, then I get get 2 15 man bloodletter squad i think when I drop UM and some other things..... Illl check it out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated List:

Hq:
Fateweaver
Bloodthrister Botbg

Elites:
2x4 Crushers full upgrades
1x6 fiends UM

Troops:
2x5 Pbs
1x5 Horrors with Bolt/Changeling
2x11 BLs

Fast Attack:
2x10 Hounds

Heavy:
3 MOT/Bolt Princes

2500 Even. I add BLs and put just made the 3x8 Hounds into 2x10 which is just as effective. Any other changes recommended? Im iffy about the BLs and the Hound switch.

I would change the horrors into PB and drop 2+2 hounds, and musicians from crushers to get more of those red biggies. Even with Fateweaver that 3+/5++ is kinda unsure, and you surely need wounds, even past the allocation. 8 isn't that much, 'specially in 2,5k. Just my thoughts.

Really? I find 8 crushers to be plenty. I think the 4 man squads because of the footprint size, anymore than that is too big. Plus, Id had to drop my fiends to get more and fiends are awesome.

Fiends are amazing. They give you speed.

Love the current list. You have ways to deal with a variety of threats in a plethora of ways - this is a strength. Now give it a go! Get in some testing.