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I could not find if this had been answered anywhere else, and from the people i have asked at my local game shop i have gotten so many varied responses that i now come to you. My personal understanding of cleansing flame is that it puts a "hit" on everything in an entire unit and this is where the controversy arises, that would mean you roll separately for (and be able to "snipe") things like a heckatrix AND the unit upgrades like the carriers of the wytches shard nets or whatever. Is this how the power works?

This is not how the power works, think of it like a template weapon. That weapon may hit every model in a unit but you still allocate wounds as per the normal wound allocation rules.

No, tht is how the power works. each model in the unit is wounded on a 4+, so you roll to see if the Hekatrix is wounded, if a nob is wounded.

THE CURSE CONTINUES! split 1:1 >.<

+1 for nos' interpretation.

Can someone tell me where to find cleansing flame so that I can read the actual rule?

Purifiers, GK Codex

My understanding of the power is that you use it as you would any template. Roll one dice for every model in unit being affected (not individually since it targets a unit and not individual models). The units controller gets to allocate any wounds....seems simple to me.

Except it does NOT target the unit; it states you wound all models in the unit. You are wounding the models and not the unit as a whole.

No allocation.

Ugh! One more reason to loathe grey knights.

So, if you are rolling separately, you would use individual toughness as well? I need to look at the codex again, but I don't remember playing it this way the two times I have been burned. Get it? ..... burned? Man, I am on a roll today....

Toughness does not matter. Wounded on a 4+.

I'm going to side with Nos on this one. The text says models and not units (in fact it can effect multiple units at the same time) therefore each model must take the test. Now to save time models that are identical could be dealt with at the same time and then any differing models can be dealt with individually.

Pied_Piper11 wrote:Toughness does not matter. Wounded on a 4+.

Make the bad man stop. I hate Grey Knights..... Of course, it would help if I had grots attacking.....

Maybe I missed it, but the power says models in enemy units in the same assault suffer a wound on a 4+, not hit. So every model rolls, then take any successful wounds by model type/wargear. So Nob+6 Boys, roll 1 for the Nob and 6 for Boys, each set may then take saves if they are wounded.

Homer

Why must every model roll separately?

There seems to still be debate on this when, to me, the wording is very simple.

"all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll of 4+" (C:GK pg 31)

The subject in this sentence is "all enemy models".
Additionally, the condition for the subject to be effected is singular - "a roll of 4+".


Is there any reason besides the inherent strength of this power and what we think should be the RAI that im missing here?!

Just to clarify the two camps are:

1: Roll a single d6, on a 4+ all enemy models in that assault suffer a wound.
vs.
2: Roll a d6 for every enemy model in that assault. On a 4+ each model rolled for suffers a wound.


Im keen to see where people are getting the "must roll for every model in the squad" off of the language in that rule.

Cheers.

WOW! It never even occurred to me it could be interpreted in that fashion (Option 1). Ugh! One more reason to despise grey knights.

Actually, the one-roll variant is less powerful vs. orks. I take a 50% chance that his guys simply die to boyz with few casualties over guaranteed losing half a mob any day.

This is actually a really rough call.... I need to go home and re-read my Codex. I have played Grey Knights constantly since before the Codex launched.

But the way that it has been getting played at the games stores around me has been this:

Lets say I am hitting a group of boys, a full squad of what? 29 including the nob powerclaw.

I would roll 29 dice and on a +4 I would cause a wound.

The Ork play allocated wounds but if he puts lets say 15 dice on the boys, he would roll them all together because they are the model with same gear, all failed saves are dead.

But will have to look and read it again, because if I have to wound allocate before the roll basically, that could be better for us.

Well my advice, when thinking this out, is to ignore wound allocation until you decide what you think the RAW/wording of the power is.

If its #1, then allocation doesnt matter, since every model takes a wound.

Otherwise, this thread will become bogged down in allocation discussion.

FWIW, I'm struggling to argue for #2 on anything other than RAI, because grammatically I think its very clearly #1.

Again, if im missing something (linguistically/grammatically) then I'd be happy to be shown the error of my ways.

It's not like the nob is going to die from one wound. It would make a difference against other units though.

I didn't think T mattered?

Tiarna,
we've moved past the T issue. It doesnt matter.

We're on to the issue of whether its 1 roll for an entire squad or 1 roll per model in the squad.

I need to look at the codex as well, but if its as you say (Morticon), I am leaning towards option #1.

I have mixed opinion on it, but it seems like just rolling one die and killing 25 of 30 boyz (i.e. 1/6 should make their save) everytime is a lil' but nasty.

Just one more reason to hate GK.

Vs Orks
Roll 26 d6 for the boys.
Roll 3 d6 for the big shootas.
Roll 1 d6 for the Nob.

Is that correct or 30 d6 and the Ork player allocates?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except it does NOT target the unit; it states you wound all models in the unit. You are wounding the models and not the unit as a whole.

No allocation.

It's actually much simpler than that, as it doesn't even say "unit" in the rule. There's no way someone could misinterpret it to mean that it targets one then.

Now, does this mean that you have to roll separately for ever single model? So that the ones in base contact are rolled separately, resulting in possibly fewer models that can strike?

As for Mort, "all enemy models" have the condition of being wounded on a 4+. That is very different from "every model is wounded on a 4+".

You do NOT roll 1 d6 and on a 4+ would the entire squad.

You roll a d6 for every model in a unit that is in close combat.

Purifiers charge 29 orks... you roll a dice for 29 orks
Purifers charge 10 marines... you roll a dice for 10 marines.
Purifiers get charged by 10 gene stealers... you roll a dice for 10 gene stealers.