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Hi,

If I have a Wolftooth Necklace on a unit with Mark of Wulfen... do I still get the +3 to hit on all Mark of Wulfen melee attack rolls too ?

Mark of Wulfen states " A model bearing the Mark of Wulfen has the Rending special Rule in close combat. Furthermore, he replaces his usual attacks with D6+1, rolled immediately prior to when the model makes his attacks. These attacks are made using the marked models' clasw and teeth and hence are not affected by wargear, additional hand weapons and so on, though they may be bolstered by other factors (the bonus for charging, Logan Grimnar's living legend ability, etc)."

it say "not affected by wargear additional hand weapons" is the Wolftooh Necklace wargear or a special ability ? I'm thinking it's wargear. :(
Do they mean wargear like any wargear or just weapons type wargear ?

Probably spliting hairs and it would be way OP but is it legal ?

thanks
peace

You still hit on a 3+ with the WTN

And why are you taking this combo? In the case in which you take this combo your probably going to hit on a 3+. So its kind of a waste of points. And Nos wouldnt't always hitting on a 3+ be affecting the attacks given by Motw? And such should not be allowed to affect the Motw attacks since it's wargear.

No, it is affecting the value needed to hit, not affecting the attacks themselves.

A lightning claw affects the attacks, WTN affects the value to-hit

Is it not affecting the attacks to hit roll which would be affecting the attacks?

It affects the models to hit value.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, it is affecting the value needed to hit, not affecting the attacks themselves.

A lightning claw affects the attacks, WTN affects the value to-hit

Nice summary.

Hey guys

Thanks for the quick replies and answers.
I am still not clear though from the posts so let me reiderate and rephrase.

IF I use WTN and MoTW together, do I still get to use the buffs from both of them or is the WTN considered "wargear" that does not affect MoTW ?
WTN = Automatic 3+ to hit on anything.
MoTW = Unit uses his own teeth and claws to attack for D6+1 for thenumber of attacks (not to hit) and also adds rending. Conditional: "is not affected by normal wargear, but is affected by special abilities like bezerker charge etc"
Question= is WTN considered "wargear" or do they mean weapons wargear like powerfists and CC weapons, pistols etc. ? The way WTN reads to me is that it's a trinket distinquishing an already seasoned fighter so the fighter IMO already has the skill to do a 3+ to hit and the WTN is simply a badge or trinket stating that.

Grey Elder, thanks for your reply as well but I don't know what you mean by Nos. I am new and learning but here's what I gather so far.

1. My normal to hit without Wolftooth necklace (WTN) on the unit in question (Wolf Baurd Battle Leader) is a +5. When I add the WTN my hit "automatically goes to +3" according to the direct quote from the codex. So,... I'm choosing the WTN for the Gauranteed 3+ which is way better than 5+.
2. Also, This build is a low cost build only 98 points and I'm not choosing Wolf Claws because they get a re-roll to hit anyways and yes that would be a waste of points.
3. The rules for Mark of the Wulfen (Mark of the Wulfen) state that your not using the normal wargear to attack (i.e CC weapons etc) but instead the model uses his "claws and teeth" like a werewolf. The rule also states that "is not affected by wargear." I was wondering and still not 100% clear does that include the WTN or do they mean wargear like weapons wargear and not tailsmans and stuff.
4. Yea, WTN only affects number to hit not total number of attacks.

500 point army
Total build idea = battle leader HQ unit
.. Standard base cost 70points, storm bolter +3points, standard CC weapon (not really being used), MoTW +15points, WTN +10points, and Fenrisian wolves x2 for +20points total (+10points each)
Total build cost without fenrisian wolves = 98points. With wolves 118.

Should be a BAD ASS LOW COST quick attack unit with 5strenght 5toughness (leader only not wolves) 3+Asv with D6+1 Attack rolls, 3+ to hit, rending, They shall Know no Fear, Counter attack, Independent. I didn't put him in Terminator armor because he's getting a 3+sv anyways and has 2w and wolves can take the wounds if need be. also he's low cost and 40 points for termy armor is expensive just for an invunerable imo. And because Termy armor doesn't allow for Sweeping advance.. BUT another questions is ... if I put him in Termy armor do I still get sweeping advance because of the 2 wolf pets he has ? technically in theory they could still track down the fleeing enemies.
PS I don't recognize your acronym. But thanks for help spuring on the descussion. Plenty of posts for me to learn from.

Thanks guys!

"NOS" is short for "nosferatu1001," he was making a comment to, NOS.

Now on to your question.

You can take both WTN and MoTW on the same model. The WTN will only help with your hit roll, so it will work out fine. Think of it like a modifier, much like furious charge, but helps with the hit roll. The rule for MoTW works like this.....if you are taking MoTW, you will not take any advantage from your wargear option weapons, like powerfists, frostblades, power weapons or two CCW. This is because ALL of your attacks are made with the models "claws and teeth," hence not affected by wargear. So if you plan on equipping one of your models with MoTW, DO NOT purchase any other wargear that will be used in close combat, because they will NEVER be used.

If you have one model that cannot perform a sweeping advance, terminator armour, then the whole unit cannot perform the sweeping advance. Also the wolves purchase with the model must stay within 2 inches of its master.

KillThemAll, where do you get the strength and toughness 5 from?

merlin96 wrote:So if you plan on equipping one of your models with MoTW, DO NOT purchase any other wargear that will be used in close combat, because they will NEVER be used.

True exept for piece of War Gear: The Storm Shield.
I run a pair of Lone Wolves with CCW, SS, & MoTW and this makes it a killer combo.

The Wolf tooth Necklace is also kind of a waist on anthing with Saga of the Beast Slayer. If you are going to need a High To hit, you are most likly going to fighting somthing you will get Re-Rolls.

Of course if are one oth those that chokes in CC a WTN is totaly worth it.

Good point, I did not think of the SS. I can see how that can add a lot to his survivability.

Oh yes the SS/MoTW combo is Brutal.
The two Lone Wolves [Muzzle and Blitz] rack up 1-3 Squads a Game.
The one I want to try is a MoTW Wolf Gaurd, In Terminator Armor armed with a Assualt Cannon and Storm Shield.
4 Ranged Rending Attacks
1d6+1 Close Combat Rending Attacks.

The devil is in the details.

A WTN let's you Hit with your Attacks on a 3+.

Hits and Attacks are not synonymous with each other in this game. Players may rush and say,

"How many hits does that model get?"

The reality is that a model on gets to attempt to Hit after the number of Attacks theyy are allowed to make is determined.

So in the case of MotW, d6+1 Attacks are determined. The model then rolls to Hit, with the WTN hitting on 3+. The WTN did not affect the number of Attacks and thus is not prohibited.

DITTO:

merlin96 wrote:Good point, I did not think of the SS. I can see how that can add a lot to his survivability.

SS and MoTW sounds like an awesome combo and good way to get an invunerable without costly termy armor ! genius good point!

Thanks for all the responses guys .. SS gives me something new to think on for sure atleast a great alternate config with invunerable save! Sounds good if facing a bunch of Ork with power claws!
for pure DPS I think WTN and MoTW will be insane too! ..
3+to hit, D6+1 # attack rolls, and rending! what more can I say
Add 2 fenrisian wolves in there (as legit upgrades with the wolf gaurd battle leader), MoTW, WTN and Storm bolter and that's one sick small army HQ at only 118 points total!



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Ps.. I'm new to the table top so friends welcome so add me ... Especially if you play spacewolves because "that's how I roll!" peace


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS i found a crunch answer to can I use MoTW and WTN together ! THE ANSWER IS YES !!

Proof: > both WTN and MoTW are listed as "upgrades and other equpiment" in the codex so the "no additonal wargear usage" on MoTW does NOT apply to WTN becaue WTN is NOT wargear it's an upgrade and other equimpent

THANK YOU ALL


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PSSS great logical/crunch answer too Brother Ramses!

You cannot sweeping advance while in terminator armour, even if other members of your unit (the wolves) dont have terminator armour.