Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Right so in the most recent games where I've used the avatar of khaine he hasnt done exceptionally well; in fact he hasnt done anything! Now the reason for this is simply because my opponent keeps shooting him before he even gets into the enemy lines. Now I've tried accompanying him with things like a wraithlord and squads of infantry but that hasnt worked as of yet. I know about the farseer using fortune and I'm going to consider that but I was wondering if anyone had any other ideas.

Keep him Fortuned. Period. It is the only way to keep him alive.

A normal Fortune/Doomseer works, but most Eldar players prefer Eldrad if you have the points. He allows to to fortune more than one unit, and gives you the vital redeployment of units, which allows you to get the Avatar into better position if your opponent deploys to avoid him, after you have setup.

Alerian wrote:Keep him Fortuned. Period. It is the only way to keep him alive.

A normal Fortune/Doomseer works, but most Eldar players prefer Eldrad if you have the points. He allows to to fortune more than one unit, and gives you the vital redeployment of units, which allows you to get the Avatar into better position if your opponent deploys to avoid him, after you have setup.

+1

A fortuned Avatar is almost impossible to kill. Also Eldrad gives you the ability to cast Fortune twice in case one gets blocked/psychic hooded.

Run him from cover to cover to try and hide him from the majority of things that will gun him down. He is not that big for an MC so larger ruins and buildings will hide him fairly well.

Use this as a supplement to fortune.

Dr. Serling wrote:Run him from cover to cover to try and hide him from the majority of things that will gun him down. He is not that big for an MC so larger ruins and buildings will hide him fairly well.

Use this as a supplement to fortune.

LOL! Cover doesn't help the Avatar, because he already has a 4+ Invul. In fact, trying to gain cover for him will only slow him down from getting into CC, because he will be zig-zaging all over, instead of going straight a the enemy. Bad plan...very bad.

Again, FORTUNE is the only way to reliably keep the Avatar alive, preferably with Eldrad as the caster.

Alerian wrote:

Dr. Serling wrote:Run him from cover to cover to try and hide him from the majority of things that will gun him down. He is not that big for an MC so larger ruins and buildings will hide him fairly well.

Use this as a supplement to fortune.

LOL! Cover doesn't help the Avatar, because he already has a 4+ Invul. In fact, trying to gain cover for him will only slow him down from getting into CC, because he will be zig-zaging all over, instead of going straight a the enemy. Bad plan...very bad.

Again, FORTUNE is the only way to reliably keep the Avatar alive, preferably with Eldrad as the caster.

if you can get him completely out of LOS though it is valid. depends on the terrain you are using. at the shop i play at we use some large buildign terrain sometimes and even a trygon can kill LOS behind it

Right, well I have in the works an old fantasy high elf that I have lovingly called Not-Drad. I'm converting it, well trying to at least, so I'll try using him in a couple of games and if I like him, buy Realdrad. Thanks for the tip guys

G00fySmiley wrote:

Alerian wrote:

Dr. Serling wrote:Run him from cover to cover to try and hide him from the majority of things that will gun him down. He is not that big for an MC so larger ruins and buildings will hide him fairly well.

Use this as a supplement to fortune.

LOL! Cover doesn't help the Avatar, because he already has a 4+ Invul. In fact, trying to gain cover for him will only slow him down from getting into CC, because he will be zig-zaging all over, instead of going straight a the enemy. Bad plan...very bad.

Again, FORTUNE is the only way to reliably keep the Avatar alive, preferably with Eldrad as the caster.

if you can get him completely out of LOS though it is valid. depends on the terrain you are using. at the shop i play at we use some large buildign terrain sometimes and even a trygon can kill LOS behind it

Plain and simple, trying to hide the Avatar is a BAD plan. Here is why...

If you are trying to get him completely out of LOS, then he is still usually zig-zagging around the table like an idiot, instead of running straight at the enemy. This is VERY bad, since his job is to get in to CC as soon as possible....

Plus, you WANT your opponent to shoot at a Fortuned Avatar...that is the whole point. He is big and scary. The point of using a Fortuned Avatar is to force your opponent to shoot at him by making him as big a threat as possible. Every shot going into him is not going into anything else; and, since he is Fortuned, he still has a good chance of living though anything shot at him.

If you are hiding the Avatar, you are wasting him. Any movement not directed towards the enemy lessens his threat - this is bad. Any shots going into your army, instead of the Avatar is bad, since a Fortuned Avatar is one of the most durable things in the codex.

Edited for clarity and spelling

Alerian wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:

Alerian wrote:

Dr. Serling wrote:Run him from cover to cover to try and hide him from the majority of things that will gun him down. He is not that big for an MC so larger ruins and buildings will hide him fairly well.

Use this as a supplement to fortune.

LOL! Cover doesn't help the Avatar, because he already has a 4+ Invul. In fact, trying to gain cover for him will only slow him down from getting into CC, because he will be zig-zaging all over, instead of going straight a the enemy. Bad plan...very bad.

Again, FORTUNE is the only way to reliably keep the Avatar alive, preferably with Eldrad as the caster.

if you can get him completely out of LOS though it is valid. depends on the terrain you are using. at the shop i play at we use some large buildign terrain sometimes and even a trygon can kill LOS behind it

Plain and simple, trying to hide the Avatar is a BAD plan. Here is why...

If you are trying to get him completely out of LOS, then he is still usually zig-zagging around the table like an idiot, instead of running straight at the enemy. This is VERY bad, since his job is to get in to CC as soon as possible....

Plus, you WANT your opponent to shoot at a Fortuned Avatar...that is the whole point. He is big and scary. The point of using a Fortuned Avatar is to force your opponent to shoot at him by making him as big a threat as possible. Every shot going inot him is not going into anything else; and, since he is Fortuned, he still has a good chance of living though anything shot at him.

If you are hiding the Avatar, you are wasting him. Any movement not directly towards the enemy lessens his threat, this is bad. Any shots going into your army, instead of the Avatar is bad, since a Fortuned Avatar is one of the most durable things in the codex.

I dont' pretend to know eldar


I was just trying to explain how he (dr. serling) might be trying to give it a cover save

I know nids though and sometimes eliminating LOS on thier MC completely is a tactical advantage with eldar if its a bad idea the get them completely out os LOS then sounds like you knwo better than I .

Also depends what size game you are using you Avatar.

I have not had much success running the Avatar in 2000 points games, because the number of guns that can hurt him goes way up.

In 1000 point games, a non fortuned Avatar makes it there pretty much every time.

Around 1500, you better fortune him.

Alerian wrote:
Plain and simple, trying to hide the Avatar is a BAD plan. Here is why...

If you are trying to get him completely out of LOS, then he is still usually zig-zagging around the table like an idiot, instead of running straight at the enemy. This is VERY bad, since his job is to get in to CC as soon as possible....

Plus, you WANT your opponent to shoot at a Fortuned Avatar...that is the whole point. He is big and scary. The point of using a Fortuned Avatar is to force your opponent to shoot at him by making him as big a threat as possible. Every shot going into him is not going into anything else; and, since he is Fortuned, he still has a good chance of living though anything shot at him.

If you are hiding the Avatar, you are wasting him. Any movement not directed towards the enemy lessens his threat - this is bad. Any shots going into your army, instead of the Avatar is bad, since a Fortuned Avatar is one of the most durable things in the codex.

Edited for clarity and spelling

This man plays eldar.

I run the avatar in nearly all my games even at 2500 points and find he never lets me down. I run mechdar with 2 wraithlrods and the avatar. I will fortune him sometimes but most of the time people wont shoot him first. They want to deal witht he skimmers running aroiund and then all of a sudden he is in range rampaging through the army. And if they want to shoot the fortuned avatar be my guest... I would rather you shoot him vs my serpents or wraithlords

Pretend your not an eldar player for a second original poster. Lets say in this example you play chaos (like I used to) what the biggest most bad-assiest guy in your army, deamon prince with wings (lets face it they kick ass). So your looking over your enemy's army, you know what they are, you know about eldar, and the- HOLY gak! Who is that big molten steel guy with the screaming sword and bloody hand!?!?

"Oh thats the avatar of Khaine, the god of war. Whose hand eternally drips with the blood of the very people he now protects, who seeks to bring vengeance to the gods that ripped him to pieces and scattered the shards across the mortal plain"

Now, wouldn't you shoot it first?

Fortune that .

Cypher's Sword wrote:Pretend your not an eldar player for a second original poster. Lets say in this example you play chaos (like I used to) what the biggest most bad-assiest guy in your army, deamon prince with wings (lets face it they kick ass). So your looking over your enemy's army, you know what they are, you know about eldar, and the- HOLY gak! Who is that big molten steel guy with the screaming sword and bloody hand!?!?

"Oh thats the avatar of Khaine, the god of war. Whose hand eternally drips with the blood of the very people he now protects, who seeks to bring vengeance to the gods that ripped him to pieces and scattered the shards across the mortal plain"

Now, wouldn't you shoot it first?

Fortune that .

Lol

My experience (limited from a few games) is like this. I'd keep the Avatar fortuned and one of two things would happen:

- The enemy unleashes hell at him, killing him before he reaches the enemy lines. In this case he did his job cause he soaked up a gakload of shots (4+ reroll means only 25% of all wounds will not be saved).
- The enemy does not counter fortune by shooting more at it and instead focuses on wraithlords or falcons. In this case your Avatar will reach the enemy lines which means fortune did its job to get your Avatar through.

Ar we asuming this is Taus were facing? If you play against a cc orinted army, you want his Fearless bouble to keep your Guardians from running/geting pinned and alas you wont throw him in your oponents face (Assuming you play footdar). Plus he's good at counter-charging. 'Cource against Tau or IG or anything shooty you migh want to throw him in your opponents face, but otherwise not.

Yeah, this one is really clear-cut. Use Fortune.

To put it into perspective of how big a difference Fortune makes, lets assume there's a huge IG blob squad shooting at your Avatar.

Without Fortune: 50% of the shots hit, 16.7% of those wound, 66.7% are saved. So, 2.78% of the original shots put a wound on him. Meaning, it takes 144 shots to kill him.
With Fortune: 50% of the shots hit, 16.7% of those wound, 66.7% are saved, 66.7% of the failed saves are saved. So, 0.93% of the original shots put a wound on him. Meaning, it takes 432 shots to kill him.

Or, lets say your opponent spams Lascannons (from BS4):

Without Fortune: 67% hit, 83.3% wound, 50% are saved. So, 27.7% wound, meaning 14.4 LC shots kill him, on average.
With Fortune: 67% hit, 83.3% wound, 50% are saved, 50% are saved. So, 13.9% wound, meaning 28.8 LC shots kill him, on average.


Fortune takes him from "survivable" to "nearly invulnerable". Use it.

Use fortune put your fareseer in a wave serpent and keep it close - simples