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It's been a while since the release, hopefully enough for the fervor of the moment to have blown over. I was just wondering, after the dust has settled, whether or not Grey Knights is one in the win column for GW according to this community. Take everything into account: New fluff, list organization, rules, models, etc.

Sure! Now I hope they focus on Xenos and knock out some Necrons and Tau soon.

Then, spend 6 months focused solely on making Black Templars badass. Nothing else. Put on those blinders.

New fluff is utter fail. Horrendous, irredeemable fail.

The rules were also very poorly written, as practically every page of the Codex ended up having a FAQ entry. Now that the post-FAQ dust has settled, they are a balanced army.

Model-wise, that's a personal judgement call. I find them overly busy, but so were the Blood Angels... that's kind of the thing for Astartes right now, so I can't judge that. The baby-carrier thing is crap.

They were a nice addition in 2nd (if that's when the first metal models appeared) and 3rd edition (Daemon Hunters).
The current batch of models is either a close copy of old models just in plastic and with new bitz, which is okay. Or new models like Storm Raven (acceptable only with Chapterhouse conversion kit) and Dreadknight (urg, acceptable only non-GW models by Hitech or, in the future, by DreamForge).

The fluff is catastrophic, esp. Super-Draigo and the Chaos Grey Knight episode. You have to ignore the new fluff to be able to enjoy them.

Most of the fluff is fine, if not extraordinary in any way. Draigo just has really stupid fluff and the typical Internet echo chamber likes to blow that out of proportion and repeat it for eternity.

Most of the rules are okay and the models are pretty good. Overall I'd say they're an okay addition to the game (er, revision) but they're better at fighting other Marine armies than they are at fighting daemons.

nott as overpowered as i thought they's be from reading the pre release test vertions. play wise they make good opponents, not to strong but not weak. I'd say they are above par on power but not on the blood angels / wolves lvl where its not even fun to play em sometimes.

the models look good especially the dreadknight

the fluff... different. some is good some is bad i dislike the wiping blood on themselves part that did not fit them. but i like some of the unit basic backstory esp paladins

Geez I didn't think the fluff was that far off from most of the old stuff, I think you guys are overreacting a bit.

Sure, Draigo is ridiculous, but you have to get a feeling that the story being told in the entry has been embellished over time, each time it was told. He probably barely won, but after the story is told 100 times he is carving his name into a daemon Primarch's chest.

Also, I kind of like that they are balanced on the knife's edge of heresy/sorcery and they are willing to do whatever it takes, including using sorcery against the daemonic.

I like the grey knights, I don't know why everyone hates their fluff.....except for draigo, I hate his fluff

daedalus-templarius wrote:
Also, I kind of like that they are balanced on the knife's edge of heresy/sorcery and they are willing to do whatever it takes, including using sorcery against the daemonic.

I think this is legitimately interesting fluff. The idea of these guys being so far out there in their war on daemons that they're willing to use sorcery and xeno technology to fight them is pretty awesome.

Brother SRM wrote:Draigo just has really stupid fluff and the typical Internet echo chamber likes to blow that out of proportion and repeat it for eternity.

It's hard to blow out of proportion that which has no proportions.

The fluff is an abomination and the rules are loaded with codex creep. This is the straw that broke my willingness to believe that Matt Ward can get better and I wish they throw his ass out before he gets his hands on another codex.

Say what you will, the Codex is actually quite a good one for power level.

No bad units, some awsome units.

Good mix of rules makes them feel unique and not just "another marine army"



Ward does have problems writing fluff, but that isn't the most important thing. It isn't horrible, most of the 'problems' people see are actually the result of people overreacting and making conclusions that arn't actually based in what was written. the Sister's bit, and the BA/Necron bit, are actually pretty vague as to the actual events. we "assume" the sisters were killed. we then overreact and say the GKs sacrificed they and bathed in their blood like the very Khorne daemons they were fighting. We are told the Necrons and BA had an impromptu alliance. We then assume the Crons and BA got together and were fighting shoulder to shoulder like comrades in arms. they were probably in 2 different places on the planet fighting the Tyranid horde and never got very close to each other. they just happened to be fighting the same enemy and when it was over neither side could continue the previous battle.

in a perfect world, Ward would write the rules and someone else would write the fluff.

Grey Templar wrote:
in a perfect world, Ward would write the rules and someone else would write the fluff.

In a perfect world, Phil Kelly would write everything. Space Wolves has some stupid bits (most of them are due to players cheesing the codex; having 4 living lightning priests, Long Fang spam, etc) but Orks, Eldar, and Dark Eldar are all fantastic codices, even if Eldar has aged a bit. All of these codices are fluffy as hell, play like the fluff dictates, but are still powerful or at least have a powerful build or two. Phil Kelly is the man.

On the GK Fluff:


The big one that you MUST remember is that GK are now RADICALS and not PURITANS.

Previous codex: They would not fight alongside of Daemonhosts.
New Codex: they will fight alongside daemonhosts and Xenos. They will use Xeno tech and sorcery to achieve their goals.

If they kept them as "puritans" they would have been far too much of a "good guy" for the 40k world. This way they can actually fit into the Grim-Dark 40k universe and feel like they fit there.


On Draigo: Him beating up a Primarch was a little much, BUT we do not know the full details of the battle. The previous grand master was present and did die. How many other GK were there and helped out? Angron was banished to the warp, and he is a for more "combat oriented" Primarch then Moratorion. The specifics of the heart carving are not known as well. Does a DP even have functioning organs? Was it one of his hearts that fell out of his rotting chest and was left on the battle field? The specifics are not known.

I hold no objections to any of the stuff he did in the warp. Why? Because none of it mattered. He burned some of Nurgle's garden....so what? That happens every day as the 4 gods fight each other. He did nothing permanent while in the warp, all he did was not die. (impressive none the less, but not fluff breaking crazy i would say)


On the sister's thing: Again we do not know the details. The sisters could survive the "Bloodtide" but could not stop it. The GK knew how to stop it, but could not survive it. The GK saw a solution, and they took it regardless of the consequences. (Their Radical nature showing here). Maybe they could have still stopped it without the Sister's blood, but they would have taken casualties. Again we do not know the nature of THIS bloodtide.



On Rules

So far, Matt Ward has shown himself to be the most consistent rules writer for 40k in 5th edition

Space Marines: a solid book, competitive options, multiple builds, but not unbeatable.
Blood Angels: While some things are Hyped up (Meph and priests), in the end it is a strong codex, but not unbeatable.
Grey Knights: A lot of builds to chose from, but each one has its strengths and weaknesses.


While Phill Kelly did a fantastc job with the DE book, the Space Wolf book is just not that good.
He started the whole Wolfy-wolf-wolf thing (bloody-blood-blood thing).
There are several units that are just not good (all of the ___Claw units for example)
All of the "good" units are just a few points less then they should be.
Some things just feel like they were not play tested well enough. (Jaws and Wolf Standards)


Crudace has been all over the place.
IG is kinda a mess, with some units being Very powerful, and others being nearly useless. Luckily there are enough options that you can still get some good builds out of the book.
The Tyranid book would be decent, IF there were no Tanks in the game. It also gives the impression of "get rid of the old good stuff so you buy the new models".