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Ok so here it goes.


HQ:

Tyranid prime; 100pts
Boneswords,
scything talons
adrenal glands

ELITES:

Deathleaper; 140pts

DOM'T; 90pts

TROOPS:

Tyranid warrior brood; 175pts
x5
scything talons
rending claws
adrenal glands

Genestealer brood; 238pts
x14
adrenal glands

Genestealer brood; 238pts
x14
adrenal glands

981pts


So yes you can see i'm powerhousing a bit with the lictor and the DOM'T.

The warriors act as bodyguard to the DOM'T and tyranid prime. I don't want my 90pt cheesecake to fail a test and assault that TT/SS termi unit.

The Tyranid prime is a point saver.

Short of that it is rather self explanatory.

CnC welcome. I'm new to Nid tactics.

You have almost no ranged anti-tank or anti-transport. I'd strongly suggest adding some Hive Guard into the list - your DoM won't work on units in vehicles, so cracking those open is vital. Otherwise you're going to have a really hard time against a highly mechanized army.

Though, I don't know how viable a walking DoM is. All it takes is for one failed save against krak missle or lascannon to instant kill him. As your list currently stands, there's no other "high priority" target for your opponent's missle launchers to shoot at.

You also have 19 points left in your base list - those should be spent! 10 point Regeneration for your Prime is a steal, or you can probably get another Genestealer for your list.

I have been worrying about tanks. I was relying on rending to win the day. If you do the maths you would see that a rending strike with furious charge is an average of 11 pen for a warrior. Enough to pen a rhino, chimera or even a tank in the hind armour. But anti tank is still a problem. What about zoanthropes? Their str10 ap1 lance is enough to make most things quake. But I am short of elite choices, so I can only take one. And they are only one unit, so they can only take one thing on at a time.

I could drop the deathleaper for some hive guard or a zoanthrope. They don't really suit the background theme of my list. But I don't really have much choice. I had forgot about the hive guard actually until you mentioned it.

There main problem with trying to rend tanks is after popping them, their insides come out and are free to shoot whatever unit assaulted the tank. You really want tanks opened up well before your foot soldiers get to them, so you can jump straight to assaulting the footsoldiers.

Zoanthropes are good, but become really unreliable if your opponent has a librarian or other form of psychic shutdown. That's why I prefer Hive Guard - they are pretty tough to begin with, and they don't require LoS to fire. Their range is also 24" instead of 18", letting them start shooting sooner.

At 1k, I wouldn't expect to see a Land Raider, so I wouldn't worry about AV14. It's AV 10 and 11 you should be most concerned with.

As for your list, you can have up to 3 elite choices. Shouldn't need more than a single squad at that point range.

I think I will risk the zoanthrope. As you say if I need to pop those transports then the str 10 auto glance will be invaluable. And you get more for your points. And the chances of me finding a librarian or psyker assassin is small. Most the people locally are chaos marine players. But what about the warriors. They seem a bit flimsy. One large blast template and they would be squealing. They may have three wounds but they can be instant deathed with a battlecannon. Now I have zoanthropes I have no worry about synapse.

zilegil wrote:I have been worrying about tanks. I was relying on rending to win the day. If you do the maths you would see that a rending strike with furious charge is an average of 11 pen for a warrior. Enough to pen a rhino, chimera or even a tank in the hind armour. But anti tank is still a problem. What about zoanthropes? Their str10 ap1 lance is enough to make most things quake. But I am short of elite choices, so I can only take one. And they are only one unit, so they can only take one thing on at a time.

This is why you DON'T use adrenal glands. If you goal is KILL tanks then adrenal glands does not improve your chances of that significantly.

Fight any rear AV10 vehicle w/genestealers or warriors
W/adrenal glands. 5 to glance, 6 to penetrate
w/o adrenals. 6 to penetrate, as 6+4+d3 > 10.

All that adrenal glands does for rending S4 units is add the possibility to glance on top of your chance to penetrate. That's not terrible, but it's not exaclty awesome either for the 115+ points you are spending on AG. Personally I'd suggest switching to poison for increased effectiveness against infantry, or dropping the upgrades all together and getting more troops and some ranged anti-tank.

So yes you can see i'm powerhousing a bit with the lictor and the DOM'T.

This made me laugh. Neither is considered a particularly effective unit for competitive play.

zilegil wrote:I think I will risk the zoanthrope. As you say if I need to pop those transports then the str 10 auto glance will be invaluable. And you get more for your points. And the chances of me finding a librarian or psyker assassin is small. Most the people locally are chaos marine players. But what about the warriors. They seem a bit flimsy. One large blast template and they would be squealing. They may have three wounds but they can be instant deathed with a battlecannon. Now I have zoanthropes I have no worry about synapse.

Zoans are also T4, so they can be instant killed as well. They are also more expensive than Hive Guard.

The other thing to consider is Zoans only get one shot, and at 18". Hive Guard get two, at 24" away, and don't require LoS. The S10 AP1 Lance is nice, but 2 S8 AP4 bolts is nothing to skoff at either, especially since those shots deny cover saves to vehicles that are relying on other vehicles to provide cover.

I also wouldn't trust Zoans as a reliable source of Synapse - most battle reports I've read, they rarely live past the first turn or two. They attract a lot of fire if your opponent doesn't have some sort of psychic defense to neuter them.

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

zilegil wrote:I think I will risk the zoanthrope. As you say if I need to pop those transports then the str 10 auto glance will be invaluable. And you get more for your points. And the chances of me finding a librarian or psyker assassin is small. Most the people locally are chaos marine players. But what about the warriors. They seem a bit flimsy. One large blast template and they would be squealing. They may have three wounds but they can be instant deathed with a battlecannon. Now I have zoanthropes I have no worry about synapse.

The other thing to consider is Zoans only get one shot, and at 18". Hive Guard get two, at 24" away, and don't require LoS. The S10 AP1 Lance is nice, but 2 S8 AP4 bolts is nothing to skoff at either, especially since those shots deny cover saves to vehicles that are relying on other vehicles to provide cover.

Not to hijick the thread, but a quick question, how does Impaler cannon deny cover saves from vehicles? Does it deny cover save cause of the wording: "The target can only count the benefits of cover they are in or touching it it lies between them and the Hive Guard"?

Pretty much, at least that's my understanding of it.

The way I think of it, Impaler Cannon negates cover saves that are granted due to LoS issues. (i.e., can't see 50% of the model, intervening units, etc).

If squads/vehicles are actually in or against area terrain, or if the thing granting them cover is a wargear item (smoke launchers, KFF, etc) or psychic power, then they will still get their cover saves.

But a common tactic I've seen employed (to no small degree of success - SabrX, I'm looking at your SoB reports; brilliant tactic that is) is to keep a lead vehicle that pops smoke, and then use it to block LoS to your other vehicles. That tactic would work against Zoanthropes, as they require LoS. But Hive Guard can pop the vehicles behind the lead without trouble, because they don't require LoS. The lead would still get their save, even against the Hive Guard, however. But there's little that can be done about that. But where one vehicle popping smoke would give X number vehicles a cover save, against Hive Guard, it only gives 1 vehicle a cover save.

I'm not getting rid of DOM'T for anybody.

The reason I thought zoanthropes would be good is because they have their small blast AP3 cupcake plate for the common MEQ's that you see a lot round these days. And with Eldar, crons and tau coming up methinks I need it.

Also if I up my army's point value I would need to replace the guard anyway or get something else to crack those big tanks. I suppose there is always the trygon or subtype. Also they are immune to instinctive behaviour. Unlike the guard. So I need an extra prime to keep them in check.

Anyways, the list.

HQ:

Tyranid prime; 100pts
Boneswords,
scything talons

Tyranid prime; 95pts
regneneration
deathspitter


ELITES:

Hive guard; 50pts

Hive guard; 50pts

DOM'T; 90pts

TROOPS:

Tyranid warrior brood; 175pts
x4
scything talons
rending claws
Toxin sacks

Genestealer brood; 238pts
x14
Toxin sacks

Genestealer brood; 238pts
x14
Toxin sacks

991pts

DOM'T not being tactical? I heard from a few sources that it was brilliant. Like the dakka dakka elite Tyranid tactica for one. Maybe it is a bit outdated? It is 5th ed.

I've seen a few things in that tutorial that seems to go against the current mindset. I wouldn't take it as gospel. That was also written before DoM'T was nerfed to not affect units in vehicles, IIRC.

The Doom will either work great for you, or get taken out really early by a krak missle. As for higher points costs, I think if anything you'll want more hive guard, and either add a unit of zoans or add a few MC's to tackle what the hive guard can't.