Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, the other day I was flipping through the tyranids codex in my flgs, and I must say I love the fluff and models for the Trygons/Mawlocs. I doubt I am actually going to start a tyranids army any time in the near future, but If I did, I'm sure it would include at least one of these crazy things. But which one?

At first, the Trygon looks like the obvious choice, with a higher WS and ranged capabiliteis, not to mention 3 more attacks. An while slightly situational, I can see subterranean assault being useful in some cases. You can also upgrade to a trygon prime wich grants synapse and a cool shooting attack, for a price.

But the Mawloc is just slightly more affordable at 170 pts, and the ability to appear right under an enemy unit and laying out a bunch of str 6 ap 2 hits, and allowing me to make some cheesy Dune references is very appealing, along with the ability to re-burrow and do it again next turn. Burrow also allows the Mawloc to always be where you need him.

So what say you dakka? Trygon? Or Mawloc? And if you take Trygon, Prime or no Prime? Advice on what upgrades to take and best tactics for each one, and how competitive they are would be appreciated. Cheers!

You take Trygons. The tyranids have sutch a uphill battle these days, you should not pun ish yourself taking worse units.

The Trygon should be runn in two's or more. Othervice it will be the first thing that dies. Run it with adrenaline glands vs mech. Prime upgrade is non important as the prime one will be killed before the none prime.

Mawlocks are cool and all and I can see a lott of arguments going for them but 30 points more for +2WS, +3 attacks, Rerolls to hit, shooting, fleet and the fact that you can make tunnels just makes it a better choise.

Also, look into 6 raveners with scything tallons for the same points as a trygon. They are about as good vs moast things but AP14. And they are easier to give cover to.

I usually use both, one or the other depending on the rest of my army.

2 or three trygons is great, especially if you run them across the board with a venomthrope. I use these if the opponent tends to bring a lot of tanks, especially landraiders.

More and more though, I'm liking 3 mawlocs. My army also contains 60 genestealers, and so the opponents tend to stay in the center of the board. This is great for mawlocs, who love infantry/ clustered units/tanks that cannot move out of the way and so get destroyed. Start them on the board turn one, and then they show up instantly on turn two.

From my play experience, I find both the Trygon and Mawloc not worth their points. But between the two, the Trygon is better because as soon as the Mawloc comes up from "Terror from the Deep", he does not provide much in terms of combat with his W3 A3 status without Scything Talons.

I find that T6 W6 does not provide enough protection from the many S8 shots that are all at least AP3 that every army has.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I feel though that the mawloc's lack of ability in close combat is easily made up for with terror from the deep. How i'm reading it, is that if you get 5 guys under the template, then each guy takes five str6 ap2 hits? Am I reading that right? Or iIs it just one per model?

One per model. the Unit takes the hits, not model.
So 5 models means the unit takes 5 hits.

Doomthumbs wrote:One per model. the Unit takes the hits, not model.
So 5 models means the unit takes 5 hits.

Ok, that's what I figured. What units work well with the trygon/mawloc? And what, if any, upgrades should you take on them?

Then that unit takes 5 str6 ap2 hits, with coversaves mind you.

Always take adrenals on the trygons, mawlocs dont bother getting into CC.

Venomthropes are nice because you can turn away 1/3 of the hits from ap3 shooting.

Hormogaunts also work nicely as an assault screen, since they will be able to stay ahead of the fleet trygons.

Mawlocs are easily one of the worst things in the dex.

Anything they want to kill will usually either be in a transport or in cover. That means you have to either aim your DS at a trasnsport, hope you hit, then rely on S6 to penetrate...or you aim at a unit in cover that takes a 4+ even it you land right on it. Niether of those is going to do much dmg.

Then, on your opponents turn, the Mawloc either gets destroyed or tied up in CC for the rest of the game.

The Trygon is better, because he has several shots when he enters, is far better in CC, does not have to DS right next to the enemy to be useful (making scatter rolls easier to deal with), and leaves a tunnel by which other Nids can enter the game in your opponents deployment zone. In addition, if you are going first, the Trygon can start on the table and start shooting right away, depending on what your opponent is fielding. The Mawloc is only effective from reserves, and even then he is iffy at best.

Tied up in CC? It has hit and run. Shooting at it is maybe the worst thing the opponent can do.

Doomthumbs wrote:Tied up in CC? It has hit and run. Shooting at it is maybe the worst thing the opponent can do.

LOL

As for hit and run, he isn't some high initiative beast, so don't count on getting away every turn.

As for shooting at it...well, I have never had trouble burning one down in a single shooting phase. Maybe it's because I play competitive armies that have enough AT to deal with Mech spam, but a Mawloc w/o cover dies quickly. In this I am not alone; most players field enough AT weapons to kill one quite easily.

If any army doesn't kill it outright from shooting, most will finish it off with an average CC unit with an included PF, Witchblade, PK, etc, after it takes a few wounds from shooting. Dedicated CC units definately guarentee it's death in one turn.

Basically, a Mawloc is a one hit wonder that can't kill much in an environment that gives away 4+ cover like candy and is chalk full of vehicles, as well. Even then, it isn't guarenteed to land on what you want. Sad really, becuase it is such a gorgeous model.
A Trygon gives you far more versatility and much more bang for your buck.

Well, they look similar enough, so I guess If I ever got some, I would magnitise the heads and swap 'um out, seeing as that is the only real difference between them.

I use both in my most recent Tyranid list. Yes they are somewhat weak and can be one-hit-wonders. The thing is synergy as always. Overloading your opponent with various targets may put the Mawloc low on the prioritylist. He can do some serious damage in such a situation.

My list:
270 Hive Tyrant, Wings, Twin Brainleech Devourers, Lash Whip/Bonesword, Paroxysm, Leech Essence, Hive Commander

138 6 Ymgarl Genestealers
160 2 Zoanthropes, Mycetic Spore

112 8 Genestealers
50 10 Termagants
175 Tervigon, Catalyst, Cluster Spines

160 Harpy, Cluster Spines

170 Mawloc
200 Trygon
265 Tyranofex, Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines

1700 points

The Mawloc and trygon arent alone. Ideally your opponent will have to choose targets: focussing on the Mawloc and Trygon will mean that the Hive Tyrant, Harpy and Tyranofex will run freely, etc... Target saturation is key. Pressure is another. That is why I like playing with this list. If it works it presents the opponent with multiple immediate threat to be dealt with. This list relies on the fact that most opponents can deal with two or three of these threats, but not all at once.

Good luck with your list. I'd say try them both out and see how you can use both Trygon and Mawloc most effectively.

Cilithan

Mawloc. Nice ability, but it can only be used on aternate turns - so sometimes only twice in a game - and that's even if it doesn't get killed first time it pops up. Doesn't do enough for the 170 points for my liking.

Sure the mawloc is slightly more affordable but for the extra points you get a far superior beast with the trygon. I personally run mine prime but you do not need to as stated earlier it will be the one that gets singled out. 2 is almost a must and rest assured when they are in CC they are a beast that will destroy most everything you can throw at them. Adrenal glands are a very very very important upgrade. I have experimented with regeneration but in the end it is just too expensive for my taste especially in low point games. Go with trygon or prime

The way I understand Mawlocs work is you start them on the board and then burrow them in your turn 1 movement phase.
Since it shows up the turn after burrowing, it comes in turn 2.
Burrows turn 3.
Shows up turn 4
Burrows turn 5, Contests in turn 6.

Texas Instrument wrote:The way I understand Mawlocs work is you start them on the board and then burrow them in your turn 1 movement phase.
Since it shows up the turn after burrowing, it comes in turn 2.
Burrows turn 3.
Shows up turn 4
Burrows turn 5, Contests in turn 6.

Assuming there is a turn 6.
And assuming it doesn't get shot to death the 3 turns it is on the board.

Cilithan wrote:I use both in my most recent Tyranid list. Yes they are somewhat weak and can be one-hit-wonders. The thing is synergy as always. Overloading your opponent with various targets may put the Mawloc low on the prioritylist.

Cilithan

I always find that someone who sugests "overload the opponent with varius targets" eather is not meeting the same amount of guns that I do, or he is pointing out some very implesit elementary advice.

ruminator wrote:Mawloc. Nice ability, but it can only be used on aternate turns - so sometimes only twice in a game - and that's even if it doesn't get killed first time it pops up. Doesn't do enough for the 170 points for my liking.

This is the main thing the Mawloc has going against it. You've got a 170 pt model that might only get to attack twice in the game.

Unless you hit a really nice juicy expensive squad with your AP 2 attacks... it's not going to pay for itself.

I always find that someone who sugests "overload the opponent with varius targets" eather is not meeting the same amount of guns that I do, or he is pointing out some very implesit elementary advice.

Maybe you face more guns, or I play on tables with more terrain. Either way, I played with various MC-based lists and have had my share of succes. When focussing on big targets on a theme for your list, more is better.

Sure this advice is elementary. That doesn't make it less sound. It was a reaction to posts in this threat that neither Mawloc nor Trygon can be used competatively. I disagree and think I've made Zilla-lists work more than once. Anyway my advice doesn't work for you, that's fine, It does for me. Can you do better than MC-spam? Sure. But IF you want to use either Mawloc or Trygon in a (semi) competative list, bring more MC's to saturate.

Cilithan

Mawlocs were a nice concept but implemented poorly. S6 AP2 with cover saves is lackluster, not to mention the scatter involved. I've only used them a few times but in all cases they missed the target.

Instead of the S6 AP2 it should have done something similar to all the stat test powers and abilities coming out of late (like I test or remove, auto pen vehicles). As stated above you can't do it often so why not make it as scary as possible? I'd have paid more points and even considered lictors to guide if it was at all worth the trouble. But I digress.

I've used trygons and have had mild success with em, but for me they are shelved till I get some venomthropes painted up. And I agree with the other poster, trygons work best in a T6 saturation list.

I really don't get why anyone would burrow for damage, with DS your going to end up close, and even if it doesn't have fleet, 4 attacks on a charge is still plenty to mess up any transport that move less than 12" (and anything moving faster isn't going to be much of a threat to anything). LRs and their contents will wreck him, but they wreck Trygons as well anyways.

I would usually run 2-3 Trygons with adrenal glands.

First and only time I tried a mawloc, comes up under impassable terrain and dies. 2/3 of the time the thing is gonna scatter, so it completely loses its whole point. Trygon, especcially a prime, is WAY better and killing transports and tanks and if he deep strikes he comes in like a drop pod so no failure to arrive.