Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What are people opinions of OK's and/or Beastmen??

Darn...didn't see the ogre thread

What abot Da Beastie Boyz then???

Very similar buffing armies that get into CC. Beastmen are more magic dominant thanks to herdstone and being easily able to generate max power dice per phase. Plus with access to other lores specifically shadow with multiple level 1 or 2 shamans can spam miasma and debuff enemy units so the beasts hit harder and take less damage in return. Ogres get stomp attacks, impact hits and fear, extra attacks are nice but fear is kind of useless now with BSB rerolls. Beastmen on the other hand benefit from hatred based on a leadership test which is usually passed with the BSB rerolls. I recently have shelved my Ogre army and picked up Beastmen haven't played a game with them yet but from what I have read they can be very competitive. If you have any interest check out this podcast and skip to the 43-44 minute mark for some beastmen info: http://baddice.co.uk/episode-56-beastmen-review/ Don't forget beasts also have minotaurs which are similar to ogres, more expensive but better stats. Overall I like my 8pt xh weapon gors over a 35pt bull. WS3 on bulls and iron guts will have you cursing in your sleep, but it may all change with the new book.

It's funny how opinions can change. Beastmen got so much flak here and everyone said they were doooooomed and worthless, but I think more people have experimented with them (or against them) and have seen they can cause some pain.

Ogres I think will get some good buffs in the new book. If they did nothing but reduce their cost a handful of points across the board they would be world class.

I think their biggest differences between Beastmen are one is horde-ish, or lots of units, and Ogres are traditionally very few units with many wounds. Beastmen have access to some decent magic lists and Ogres really have just their own little buffing list.

There's still one Ogre Batallion box at my FLGS and I've been thinking of buying it. If nothing else, I could resell it

Love both the ogres and beasts. Beasts seem to require much more tactical thinking sometimes, while other times the main tactic is run forward to try and smash face. Lore of beast is amazing for beastmen, since everything requires 1 less to cast on them (sig spell is awesome). They're pretty tough, but being boosted by spells really makes them shine.

Duke is correct in saying that beasts are better at hordeing, though personally i prefer a much more mobile army that can run around and fit through gaps to get flanks.

Primal fury is always a plus, especially when you pass on double 1's (hatred AND frenzy), but it's even better when you pass on bestigors.

I love both my ogres and my beasties, so i may have a biased opinion on both.

So, are we saying that the only real way to win with Beastmen is by thaking Heardstone and spamming Shamen?? What are the other builds people like? What about Chariots or Centigors?? How good is the Ambush rule?

I like them both, but am leaning toward Beastmen a little bit more..

Centigors, like most cavalry it seems, are a bit overpriced / underpowered. The minimum unit size to disrupt an enemy is 10 models, which weighs in at 250 points before any upgrades for centigors. 250 points in 10 models = fire magnet.

I haven't seen much love / use of chariots in my games, although I play Skaven so it's not like I can field them myself. If they're anything like the Doomwheel (which from the rules reading I'm guessing they are), they're not a very effective hammer unit. Sure, you'll crash in, cause some impact hits and get your mount hits in, but when it comes down to it you don't have a standard, don't have ranks and generally will end up getting dragged down in combat. TKs alleviate that somewhat as I believe they're currently the only army with ranked chariots.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

DukeRustfield wrote:It's funny how opinions can change. Beastmen got so much flak here and everyone said they were doooooomed and worthless, but I think more people have experimented with them (or against them) and have seen they can cause some pain.

I think the main complaint wasn't that they're worthless, more that they're overpriced and generally not as effective for their points as other armies. A feeling I'd agree on; Gors and Ungors could easily come down in points cost (as I can get a Clan Rat AND a Slave with a point to spare for each Gor), Minos too. Their Lore has no Lore Attribute and isn't even in the same League as the Skaven Lores or the BRB Lores. Compare the Crown of Horns to the Crown of Command and tell me why the former costs over twice the latter for the exact same effect.

Granted, some of the issues facing Beastmen are not exclusive to them. Cavalry for most armies is still overpriced, for instance.

But there's also a somewhat frustrating lack of options for Beastmen. Bestigors should, IMO, have the option of halberds instead GWs. Minos could do with a heavy armor option, not to mention a point cost reduction. Their rares are... lackluster, at best.

Yes, there are effective builds for Beastmen; I'm not denying that. Yes, they have seen a recent surge in popularity on these boards; I'm among the ones buying them up. But to say that they're even a middle tier army is a stretch, and they have no chance of being on the same tier as armies like Skaven, Lizards, Chaos and High Elves.

Hasn't stopped me from scouring ebay and the swap shop though

I run Beastmen, and they are a hit-or-miss army in my hands. I love certain aspects of their list, and loathe others.

First, I devour Empire armies. Devour. And I crap out Halflings afterwards. Ranged attacks hurt real bad (I saw an Ungor unit vanish in a hail of Pistolier fire) but once you close the distance, Primal Fury wins the day (Free re-rolls against humans!).

Speaking of which, Primal Fury is the one rule that gives the Beastmen a chance of winning. Without it, the army could not win against any army apart from a pure Halfling list. Having hatred that potentially lasts every single combat phase (or frenzy, if you roll lucky) is a game changer. Unfortunately, that seems to be the only really good thing the army gets, so it's not always enough to get you the win.

I actually do suprisingly well against High Elves. Having T4 means a lot more when your enemy is only S3. Having S4 (Wyssan's Wildform) means so much more when your enemy is T3.

Poison attacks are murder on me. Armies that use poison attacks extensively usually beat me. I would commit a hate crime to get some armor saves.

I have no way to deal with Daemons. Then again, most armies don't.

I do run chariots, but I never run them alone. I use two, and I run them together. When paired up they usually generate enough impact hits to break a non-horde unit if I get you in the flank. If I don't break the unit, I will lose the chariots. But that's okay... they are fairly cheap.

I would love to get halberds on my Bestigors, but Great Weapons aren't as bad in 7th or 8th edition as they were in all the other editions. Striking last doesn't hurt as badly when you are guaranteed to get a swing as long as you have a model in the front rank. Although, I would really love to get halberds on a lot of units (or greatweapons on basic Gors). As it stands I have a rough time with anything that has an armor save of 4+. Wyssan's Wildform can cut that back to a 5+ (and cut 3+ to a 4+) but against super-heavy cavalry like Brettonians, all I can do is pass my opponent the lube and hope he's gentle.

Gors and Ungors could stand to be a tad cheaper, as could Minotaurs (especially with the nerf job that Fear got).

Minotaurs are my hardest hitting unit, bar none. Give them great weapons and drop a Gorebull in with them for even more shenanigans!

The lack of Marks of Chaos is frustrating, as it becomes difficult to customize your army they way that WoC can. It's especially maddening since most of our special characters were clearly written to be aligned with particular Chaos gods...

As for magic, I run Beasts and Shadow. I have never found any reason to use the Lore of the Wild. None of the spells seem any better than Beasts, and the movement spell is an insult. I can move closer to my enemy, but not charge? So he can charge me? And this is something I'm supposed to want to do? And no, it's not for maneuvering around a foe. It says I have to move closer to the enemy, not around him. Besides, with Rapid Re-Form rules, even if I close with my opponent's flank, it won't be his flank for long... Sorry, that's not a patch on Wyssan's Wildform or Savage Beast of Horos, or Amber Spear.

I have never used Ambush. I cannot plan my strategy around an ability that gives my opponent an equal chance to determine where my unit comes out as I get. Seriously. 50% random, 25% my decision, 25% my opponent's decision? And this is a benefit? How about this, GW... you keep your stupid Ambush, and give me back my Marks of Chaos?

As for Monsters... I don't usually use monsters for any army. Too easy to lose them without support... Although I do like Ghorgons, since they can heal themselves. Cycgors are not as good as people seem to think. Yes, you can target a wizard or dude with a magical item in Close Combat. Your WS and I also happen to suck compered to the WS and I of any character you'd want to kill. And 275 points is an awful lot to pay for a stone thrower... But ghorgons? The ability to snipe a general out of a unit AND gain back D3 wounds? Sign me up, thank you!