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So ol'Voodoo is coming back around to 40k (again), and this time I may not have stuff distract me away!

I've been reading about some Ork lists and general Takktiks, and I've got to wonder, is it truly well and good to be taking MSU Lootas?

I can see the advantages - Cheap as Chips Points Cost, long range/backfield deployment in cover to keep them "safe" and due to cost savings you get a modicum of Anti-Transport shooting potential, while still having the points in your list for the killing stuff.

It just seems so.....odd to me. Boyz always were supposed to come in large enough mobs to start fearless, though with a small mob size, they don't say that way for too long. Still, mo'dakka = more rolls on the damage table, and having only 1-15 shots instead of 12-36 shots out of my normal load out seems....weedy in comparison.

I'd appreciate comments from people more experienced in the current game.

It depends on your list obviously, and if you're hurting for Elite slots.

But, let's say you have the points in your list for 10 Lootas. You have two options.

You can deploy them as one group to make them more resilient to fire. You'll have to lose 3 Lootas before making a morale test. Possibly deploy a SAG Mek with them for a Bosspole.

On the other hand, you can do them in 2 groups of 5.

Each group has to lose 2 Lootas before it makes a test, which is almost as good. Also, it's going to be the same test that the big group of 10 had to make. You're also forcing your opponent to divide his fire. 10 Lootas are juicy target. Are 5? Your opponent might decide to fire at something else on the board entirely instead of ANY of your Lootas. Also, now you're not screwed if you roll a "1" for the Deffguns for the whole unit. You've got two chances to roll well. Then you've got the obvious benefits of covering a larger area of the table.

I used to run 1 group of 8-12 Lootas in my games. Usually by turn 3 they were running off the board or dead. When I run two groups of 5, they usually stick around until turn 4 or even 5. I get a lot more use out of them, and they do more damage.

I suppose the general argument against it is that once the Boyz start taking casualties the unit's effectiveness decreases dramatically.

I mean, you can argue that more points to spend elsewhere is a plus, but as I see it, if you're gonna buy a unit, you might as well max it out rather than run a small squad, with substantially less firepower and survivability.

5 or 15 is the general rule for lootas.

Murrdox wrote:It depends on your list obviously, and if you're hurting for Elite slots.

But, let's say you have the points in your list for 10 Lootas. You have two options.

You can deploy them as one group to make them more resilient to fire. You'll have to lose 3 Lootas before making a morale test. Possibly deploy a SAG Mek with them for a Bosspole.

On the other hand, you can do them in 2 groups of 5.

Each group has to lose 2 Lootas before it makes a test, which is almost as good. Also, it's going to be the same test that the big group of 10 had to make. You're also forcing your opponent to divide his fire. 10 Lootas are juicy target. Are 5? Your opponent might decide to fire at something else on the board entirely instead of ANY of your Lootas. Also, now you're not screwed if you roll a "1" for the Deffguns for the whole unit. You've got two chances to roll well. Then you've got the obvious benefits of covering a larger area of the table.

I used to run 1 group of 8-12 Lootas in my games. Usually by turn 3 they were running off the board or dead. When I run two groups of 5, they usually stick around until turn 4 or even 5. I get a lot more use out of them, and they do more damage.

This, except for the SAG. You don't want a SAG and lootaz to shoot at the same target. They are effective against completely different things, so don't put them in one unit.

3x5 lootaz are very likely to stop two rhinos or shake two or three AV10-12 artillery vehicles. 15 lootaz are going to blow one rhino away and most likely destroy one artillery vehicle. So if you have spare elite slots, splitting them up works best.

Units of 15 tend to overkill things, but they are more resilient to getting assaulted. Smaller units get to split their fire and are more resilent to getting shot, at the cost of elite slots. Due to LD7 without bosspole, they are likely to run off if they start losing models, three of them running off isn't that bad, and units of 15 benefit from the mob rule until dropped to 7 models.

I actually run two squads of 10 lootas. It actually works pretty well for me, though I'm aware that many (most?) other Ork players who use them will frown at this.

My hit ratio is comfortable enough that it manages to get some results, but not too many that it feels like overkill.

Oddly enough, players don't seem to target my Lootas - they feel more inclined to target the Battlewagon, 64 boyz, 6 kanz, and a deff dread pushing towards them rather than to fire upon lootas in cover. Of course, it's common that players do take the chance to, say, drop a Dreadnought, or Terminators by one of my Loota squads, which often spells their doom - but since my Lootas are on my table edge, and the rest of my army is powering forward, most often it means that the units that struck to take out the lootas are, for a notable period of time, unable to affect my main advance. I'm quite happy to lose a squad of lootas if it means a squad of Terminators or a Dreadnaught are stuck trying to catch up on my advance.

If the enemy has managed to stall my advance however... yeah, things can get ugly quickly.

Our main Ork player who has been to Grand tournaments etc tends to run two 10 Ork loota squads - whcih are quite devestating especially if you are not aware of what they can do.......... as a fellow Dark Eldar player found out recently.

I usually try and make them target number one and two

I like running my lootas in groups of 5 with any extra points bumpign numbers up someitmes i end up with 7 or 8 if i make an odd list and nowhere to put points

though one o my shooty ork lists have 3 groups of 15 lootas, 2 SAG which are attached to grots , never attach to the lootas, and then 3 kannons 3 zzap guns and 3 lobbas. filled in with shoota boys for the front. it is pretty effective

G00fySmiley wrote:though one o my shooty ork lists have 3 groups of 15 lootas, 2 SAG which are attached to grots , never attach to the lootas, and then 3 kannons 3 zzap guns and 3 lobbas. filled in with shoota boys for the front. it is pretty effective

I think that list would surprise a lot of people with ork firepower.

I run 2x5 lootas ALL THE TIME. They are effective, infact they almost always perform well for me. And in doing so 2 things happen depending on who Im playing against.
1) the units are small, and yes they blew up a few transports, but the 3 or so x20 boyz mobs are a much scarier target, so the shots are focused on the boyz/HQs whatever, and the Lootas are left alone to continue blowing up things or just stripping bodies from units.
2) My opponent doesnt like the little Loota mobs that could, and so focus fire on them to make them go away and stop blowing up their transports. This is ALSO favorable because a unit of 5 is only 75pts. So a 75pt unit that is most likely in cover, takes fire away from my boyz mobs that usually cost around 200pts depending on how I set them up.

Looks like a win/win to me


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Green is Best! wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:though one o my shooty ork lists have 3 groups of 15 lootas, 2 SAG which are attached to grots , never attach to the lootas, and then 3 kannons 3 zzap guns and 3 lobbas. filled in with shoota boys for the front. it is pretty effective

I think that list would surprise a lot of people with ork firepower.

Agreed, that would be a blast to play with/against. Yes the pun was intended

G00fySmiley wrote:I like running my lootas in groups of 5 with any extra points bumpign numbers up someitmes i end up with 7 or 8 if i make an odd list and nowhere to put points

though one o my shooty ork lists have 3 groups of 15 lootas, 2 SAG which are attached to grots , never attach to the lootas, and then 3 kannons 3 zzap guns and 3 lobbas. filled in with shoota boys for the front. it is pretty effective

Zzap Guns = effective? You must be smoking crack... Artillery is a joke in the current meta, especially AV10...

Murrdox wrote:
But, let's say you have the points in your list for 10 Lootas. You have two options.

You can deploy them as one group to make them more resilient to fire. You'll have to lose 3 Lootas before making a morale test. Possibly deploy a SAG Mek with them for a Bosspole.

On the other hand, you can do them in 2 groups of 5.

Each group has to lose 2 Lootas before it makes a test, which is almost as good. Also, it's going to be the same test that the big group of 10 had to make. You're also forcing your opponent to divide his fire. 10 Lootas are juicy target. Are 5? Your opponent might decide to fire at something else on the board entirely instead of ANY of your Lootas. Also, now you're not screwed if you roll a "1" for the Deffguns for the whole unit. You've got two chances to roll well. Then you've got the obvious benefits of covering a larger area of the table.

I used to run 1 group of 8-12 Lootas in my games. Usually by turn 3 they were running off the board or dead. When I run two groups of 5, they usually stick around until turn 4 or even 5. I get a lot more use out of them, and they do more damage.

This is a good post

Cryonicleech wrote:I suppose the general argument against it is that once the Boyz start taking casualties the unit's effectiveness decreases dramatically.

I mean, you can argue that more points to spend elsewhere is a plus, but as I see it, if you're gonna buy a unit, you might as well max it out rather than run a small squad, with substantially less firepower and survivability.

Kharrak wrote:I actually run two squads of 10 lootas. It actually works pretty well for me, though I'm aware that many (most?) other Ork players who use them will frown at this.

My hit ratio is comfortable enough that it manages to get some results, but not too many that it feels like overkill.

You don't HAVE to run it in units of 5. If you want to run it in groups of 10, go for it- IF you are taking 20 lootaz. The idea is to split them up!

A single IG mortar squad will counter a unit of 15 lootaz till the cows come home. Don't require LoS, their weapons are very decent against the lootaz, and they force Pinning checks. Have fun eating dirt until you run off the table. BUT, when this is 3x5 lootaz, all of a sudden, you have the same number of boyz, but they can't all get pinned by one unit! they can't all get assaulted by one unit! The dice rolls for number of shots balances out too- if you roll a 1 with 15 lootaz, 15 shots- ! You need to roll THREE 1's to do this with small units! The opposite applies- you only need to roll one 5/6 to get 45 shots! With three squads, you need to roll THREE 5/6's to get 45 shots- so you will see more average rolls than you will see the high/low rolls.

One of the HUGE downsides of lootaz is they die, hard. Mortars, flamers, most CC units... realistically they are a 15p boy. 6+ armour save! LD7! no bosspole! It's very easy to remove them from your threat list. But by splitting your lootaz, you create multiple targets your opponent is not going to be a fan of. If you want to take 15, do it- split them as much as your elites slots let you! If you want to take 20- split them! if you want to take 30-split them! remove 3 groups of 10 is far harder than 2 groups of 15!

Boris420 wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:I like running my lootas in groups of 5 with any extra points bumpign numbers up someitmes i end up with 7 or 8 if i make an odd list and nowhere to put points

though one o my shooty ork lists have 3 groups of 15 lootas, 2 SAG which are attached to grots , never attach to the lootas, and then 3 kannons 3 zzap guns and 3 lobbas. filled in with shoota boys for the front. it is pretty effective

Zzap Guns = effective? You must be smoking crack... Artillery is a joke in the current meta, especially AV10...

I will say zzap guns are hit or miss, on a good roll (8 or above) they are awsome, even on a glance they shake so deny a shooting. but with a strong roll of over 10 you will likely be destroying something.. granted with a low roll it is in fact a wasted shot but to be fair look at that list. it is effective mostly because it is unexpected. nobody would take that to a tournament it is a fun list meant to be played as somethign different (as evidence by 2 SAG)

lobbas also are amazing, 48" range str5 ap5 and noneed for LOS .. put em near the middle of your tabel end iin or behind terrain and lob templates all game

as for kannonz and most arillary... artillary rock in the current meta. it sucks that they take a heavy support slot. but for the point of ork kannons (60 points for 3) you get 36" range, either str 4 ap 5 blasts or str 8 ap3 shells

the gunz get AV10 all around but still get cover save saves. if in terrain, you get some wounds via the crew 1-4 gunz so av10 5-6 hits a crew member. so bolter shots in against av10 usually hard to destory

I've fielded kannonz x3 in most of the games I've played. they always pay for themselves and then some, and to date I've rarely wiped out, in the current meta it isn't worth it to target them. or at least you can make it like this. put them away from any objectives and leave that area sparse without much else there. that way it takes shots away from other things if they shoot at them but as it doesn't get them my objectives and isn't contested they sit there all 60 points just dakkaing the game away. if it is kill point there are far qsuishier ork targets out there than shooting at 3 av10 with 10 crew.

I think the reason you say artillary sucks is becuase most poeple just say artillary suck without ever having tried them and never seeing them on the table. if you haven't used them and I know you like playing trukk spam sir so i know you hvae the heavy support slots please try em. and you don't kneed to buy the models, get gretching, get some beer or glass bottle caps , glue them to a small block of wood and then put a small piece of copper pip on em. they end up lookign surprisingly good

Agree to goofy. Ork artillery is probably the only viable artillery currently available.

G00fySmiley wrote:

Boris420 wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:I like running my lootas in groups of 5 with any extra points bumpign numbers up someitmes i end up with 7 or 8 if i make an odd list and nowhere to put points

though one o my shooty ork lists have 3 groups of 15 lootas, 2 SAG which are attached to grots , never attach to the lootas, and then 3 kannons 3 zzap guns and 3 lobbas. filled in with shoota boys for the front. it is pretty effective

Zzap Guns = effective? You must be smoking crack... Artillery is a joke in the current meta, especially AV10...

I will say zzap guns are hit or miss, on a good roll (8 or above) they are awsome, even on a glance they shake so deny a shooting. but with a strong roll of over 10 you will likely be destroying something.. granted with a low roll it is in fact a wasted shot but to be fair look at that list. it is effective mostly because it is unexpected. nobody would take that to a tournament it is a fun list meant to be played as somethign different (as evidence by 2 SAG)

lobbas also are amazing, 48" range str5 ap5 and noneed for LOS .. put em near the middle of your tabel end iin or behind terrain and lob templates all game

as for kannonz and most arillary... artillary rock in the current meta. it sucks that they take a heavy support slot. but for the point of ork kannons (60 points for 3) you get 36" range, either str 4 ap 5 blasts or str 8 ap3 shells

the gunz get AV10 all around but still get cover save saves. if in terrain, you get some wounds via the crew 1-4 gunz so av10 5-6 hits a crew member. so bolter shots in against av10 usually hard to destory

I've fielded kannonz x3 in most of the games I've played. they always pay for themselves and then some, and to date I've rarely wiped out, in the current meta it isn't worth it to target them. or at least you can make it like this. put them away from any objectives and leave that area sparse without much else there. that way it takes shots away from other things if they shoot at them but as it doesn't get them my objectives and isn't contested they sit there all 60 points just dakkaing the game away. if it is kill point there are far qsuishier ork targets out there than shooting at 3 av10 with 10 crew.

I think the reason you say artillary sucks is becuase most poeple just say artillary suck without ever having tried them and never seeing them on the table. if you haven't used them and I know you like playing trukk spam sir so i know you hvae the heavy support slots please try em. and you don't kneed to buy the models, get gretching, get some beer or glass bottle caps , glue them to a small block of wood and then put a small piece of copper pip on em. they end up lookign surprisingly good

I'm not saying artillery sucks because I haven't played them, I have played them, and they do suck. And yes I do mainly use trukk-spam but I had a 1k match against a fellow Tau player recently just for fun where I used 2x 20 boyz to footslog. I took 2 of the most USELESS units ever, a Zzap gun battery (consisted of 3 Gunz, 3 Extra grot crew and a Runtherd) & I rolled horribly every time, mostly 3's and 4's. They were miserable. Even more disappointing was the Big Mek with SAG. Man, I will NEVER EVER EVER make that mistake again. He was absolute crap, not even a "fun" choice at that. They look great on paper, sure. However, most results on the armor pen chart is VERY UNFORGIVING to Artillery, esp. AV 10 w/ T2 grots. Immobilised results themselves will destroy a gun, unlike a vehicle. Not only do you have to worry about AV10 targets that are stationary and easily wiped out by Long Fangs or Genestealers, but then you have to worry about the crew and morale, and even with a Runtherd your going to fail, miserably. You assume there's cover on the board for them at all, that's your second mistake. Kannons sound OK at best, Lobbas might even be better since you don't need LOS. However, if I do have cover, they go straight to the Lootas, which are much more of a worthy investment by farrrrrrrrrrrr

you're free to have you opinion but just because you rolled badly doesn't make them bad. as said zzap are not the best choice. they are situational and require a good roll to be worth anything, but given a 7 is the average roll you against most vehicles (non av14) will have a change to do somehting , hit on a 4+ so 1.5 hits. I will agree that kannonz are generally better btu sometimes like in the av14 case at least if you roll an 11 you get 1.5 str 10 hits so it can be useful. as for the SAG it is ... an odd entity if you roll low or scatter off you're boned plain and simple. jus thope the dice gods are with you and have the humor to laugh if you pieplate your own units.

I realise you don't think they are survivable but please use kannonz at least a few times I'm surprised in cover how long they can last, 4+ save on shots. sure the grots die easy but have to hit a 5 or 6 then hurt em and they have to fail thier cover save to but in trukk spam to be honest I wouldn't take them over my boomguns or looted wagons carrying burnaz unless i had the FOC space (used to play trukk spam at lower points like 1250 they can be amazingly fun but moved on to around 1500-1750 was hard to compete with my trukks sadly,) but do try shooty orks a few times I'd gladly throw a list or two to proxy if you wanted one with the artillary being utilized well

I agree, once in awhile Ill plop down some Ork artillery. 9 kannons are fantastic, I dont care how you look at it. If you have those, and some lootas sitting around, they turn the table into a shooting gallery, not to mention they are strong enough to make transports go bye bye