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So, on the advice of Dakkanauts, I bought a badger 200 airbrush and managed to wrangle a compressor for free (Thanks again for the advice!).

I knew it was going to be a learning curve but I'm having some real issues with the paint mix. No matter what I try it's either too thin and separates in to tiny islands when it's sprayed or too thick and looks like I'm spraying with yoghurt and ends up clogging my brush.

I've tried:
Vallejo model colour white + vallejo thinner in the following mixes (Thinner to paint): 50/50, 60/40, 40/60

Vallejo model colour white + water (Thinner to paint): 50/50, 60/40, 40/60

Citadel skull white and vallejo thinner (Thinner to paint): 50/50, 60/40, 40/60

Citadel skull white and water (Thinner to paint): 50/50, 60/40, 40/60

and I've just tried screen wash as a thinner and had some of the worst results yet.

Screen wash solution (with water, 60/40) with citadel skull white in a 60/40 mix.

With the latter the paint would hit the surface of whatever I tried to paint on and instantly separate in to tiny islands about 2mm wide and miss everywhere else.


What am I doing wrong?


If you need more info, just ask.

Hey,

have you tried adjusting the airpressure? If the mixture won't stick it could be that your just blasting paint on the model and it just doesn't have a chance to bond with the primer properly. Also, I would recommend experimenting with adding a bit of water (distilled) into the mix. I personally use a 10:1 mixture of water : flow-improver (Magic Water) when thinning Vallejo paints and was quite successful with a mix of 1:1:1 - Paint : Thinner : Magic Water.

Start working from there and adjust as needed.

But white is a notoriously fickle color to work with under the best of circumstances - have you considered using Vallejo Model Air Colors? They are specifically designed for airbrushing and just need a bit of thinning down - if even at all.

Hope this helps,


IK-Painter

Thank you for the quick reply!

I've looked in to Model Air but I was wondering if it was really just a case of buying a few of the white pots/droppers and throwing it in my brush?

You mentioned primer. From what I've read, people tend to view primer as overkill for anything other than competition or pro painting so I've ignored it so far.

Is primer recommended before attempting to airbrush and if so what primer do you recommend?


I'm just starting on 50+ necrons and as many orks and have decided to go back to spray cans for the moment despite my hatred for their pretty unpredictable 'behaviour'. I would like to have a go at painting my monoliths with the airbrush because it looks like it would make it easier with what I want to do.

Thanks again for the replies. I'll have a look at the model air and some magic water.

dave_salmon wrote: You mentioned primer. From what I've read, people tend to view primer as overkill for anything other than competition or pro painting so I've ignored it so far.

Is primer recommended before attempting to airbrush and if so what primer do you recommend?

I would highly recommend using a primer on all models you paint. Primer gives you a coat of paint you can build up on and it really helps for any subsequent paints to stick properly to your model. Check out my article on different primers and how they effect your overall paintjob on http://ik-painter.blogspot.com/2011/07/hobby-basics-iii-primer.html .

Check out the new line of Vallejo Polyurethane Primers. They come in a lot of different colors and can be applied by airbrush. This way, you can get more familiar with the use of your new toy, because the priming process is much more forgiving than the actual painting.

When using the airbrush, it is always better to paint many thin layers. If you overdo one thick coat you can block the fine details of your mini.


IK-Painter

dave_salmon wrote:

You mentioned primer. From what I've read, people tend to view primer as overkill for anything other than competition or pro painting so I've ignored it so far.

Is primer recommended before attempting to airbrush and if so what primer do you recommend?
.

Who said this so I know whose ass to kick? PRIME EVERY MODEL ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT!

That being said, now that you have an airbrush, use Vallejo Model Air Grey Primer.

aerethan wrote:

dave_salmon wrote:

You mentioned primer. From what I've read, people tend to view primer as overkill for anything other than competition or pro painting so I've ignored it so far.

Is primer recommended before attempting to airbrush and if so what primer do you recommend?
.

Who said this so I know whose ass to kick? PRIME EVERY MODEL ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT!

That being said, now that you have an airbrush, use Vallejo Model Air Grey Primer.

+1. Prime all your minis, just so that the paint grabs and doesn't let go. Grey is a good happy medium that works for all paint jobs, light or dark.

Until I find a good local source of airbrush supplies, I've been priming with grey Krylon indoor/outdoor primer in a rattle-can. Vallejo Model Air Grey Primer? (*research commences now*)

aerethan wrote:Who said this so I know whose ass to kick? PRIME EVERY MODEL ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT!

It's something I've seen in various places actually, seemed a pretty common opinion. You'll have to kick the internet in the ass I think!


I've taken the advice I've been given (very much appreciated advice I might add) and have ordered a bundle on eBay of 10 Model air paints, 5 white and 5 grey primer.

I love modelling but trying to do things 'properly' is really frustrating me....arrghh.

I must have patience though, I'd like these Necrons to not look like they're made from styrofoam painted with jam.

Thanks Dakkanauts!

Had a closer look at my compressor and realised I'd been reading it wrong.

I've been spraying struff through at 30/40 psi - I take it thats far too much pressure?

Usually 15-20 psi is what works o.k! I am still having trouble myself but everyone's helpful and that's one thing I was told to do with mine.

Cheers man.

I'd been reading the wrong valve.

When my Model Air turns up I'll have another go!

Is your Badger 200 a jar feed or gravity feed. Or am I even talking about the right brush? To my knowledge that is a sigle action brush.
Even when the manufacturer recommends a certain air pressure that is simply a suggestion. My Iwata manual says 30 psi is optimal, but I have found that 55-60psi for priming and base coats works best. Paint is delivered in a fine spray that adheres well to the model and basically powers through any inconsistency in the paint. For details, shading and highlights I run 30-45psi with a skim milk like consistency paint. Washes I spray with 15psi unthinned.
Try using windex as a thinner is reduces clogging and dries quickly. Mess with airpressure until you find what works. And if all else fails, ditch the badger and look at an Iwata NEO 43USD so call it 35 GBP(too lazy to actually convert) for a double action .35mm brush is a good deal. But I am repeating: if all else fails.

What are you using to thin the paint with?

Water is too wet to thin via airbrush and windex (ammonia) isn't always practical or healthy. Try looking into an airbrush thinner/medium. I use Golden Airbrush Medium:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/technicaldata/abmedium.php

Also, do you have a moisture filter installed on your compressor? If not, you need to get at least one, preferably 2 (one near the tank, one in-line with the airbrush hose). Since a compressor is simply cycling the air around you, if it's humid, that water is also compressed into the tank. It can also buildup in the hose itself, as the air molecules go from hotter (compressed in the tank) to cooler (uncompressed/sprayed out). That's why I suggest 2, if you're doing fine detail.

30-40psi isn't all that high to spray at. I use that psi for base-coating and larger area coverage. Generally going down to 20-25psi for finer details, small minis, and weathering.

It's a single action, jar fed model.

The recommended pressure is vague: 15 to 50 psi.

So, really, according to the manual, I should be ok. But it appears not.


I think that the reason for the poor result was a combination of not thinning the paint properly and spraying too far away from the surface.

I've been using screen wash and water to thin the paint but the paint hits the surface and separates in to small islands.


I'll adjust the pressure and try it out with the new paint.

Thanks for the advice!

prime EVERYTHING

and 30psi?!? i'm surprised you aren't blowing the models over, I airbrush at 10-15ish, 20 if it's a metallic, but thats the absolute max.

Ditto everybody else re primer (I actually usually use vallejo aerosol even though I've got an airbrush - it's just quicker to do as I don't have to set everything up). I only use vallejo air brush thinner - this does exactly what is says on the tin (so to speak) - never needed to try anything else. The vallejo air paints are really good, they have ground the pigment down more so it's less likely to clog the brush (I actually also use the metallics for painting with a normal brush as the finish is better). It goes without saying - keep everything meticulously clean to stop clogs. I'm still a novice myself with an airbrush - you just gotta keep practicing on bits of scrap/card etc first to get the hang of it. It can be quite frustrating at times but stick with it as it will be worth it in the end!

I've been using screen wash and water to thin the paint but the paint hits the surface and separates in to small islands.

As I mentioned above, you cannot thin with water.

Do it right. Buy some airbrush medium/thinner.

Thanks very much for all the help.

My compressor has a moister filter before the hose to the airbrush but not room for a second like you suggested.

I've ordered the Vallejo Model Air white and grey primer and I'll grab some Vallejo thinner from the same dude I got the paints seeing as how I'll be making a second order for another lot of airbrush cleaner (plowing through the stuff).


Generally speaking, how far away from the model do I want to hold the brush when I'm painting?

Thanks again for all the help! I've been getting really frustrated with this all recently and all your help is really, well, helping!

dave_salmon wrote:Thanks very much for all the help.

My compressor has a moister filter before the hose to the airbrush but not room for a second like you suggested.

I've ordered the Vallejo Model Air white and grey primer and I'll grab some Vallejo thinner from the same dude I got the paints seeing as how I'll be making a second order for another lot of airbrush cleaner (plowing through the stuff).


Generally speaking, how far away from the model do I want to hold the brush when I'm painting?

Thanks again for all the help! I've been getting really frustrated with this all recently and all your help is really, well, helping!

One thing I learned over the last few years of airbrushing is - there are no absolutes. Just practice (trial and error). There is NO proper thinning ratio, there is no perfect PSI, there is no perfect distance for holding the model. ...it is all subjective to your mix, your paints, your tools, your desired affect and your level of skill/familiarity with the AB.

Practice, practice, practice, ...start on terrain and push yourself to paint smaller and smaller details with the AB.

To answer your question, generally speaking, I do about 6-8" when using low PSI with very thin mixes... but that is always subject to change due to too thin, or not thin enough mixes, different paint brands, humidity, bad luck etc...

I use my airbrush constantly and %99 of the time I don't prime anything. I use the airbrush to get a basecoat color (black, white, red, blue, whatever) and then go from there (except on vehicles, but that is a different story!).

Maybe it is because I've been using one for over 30 years (enamel, acrylic, and everything in between), but I don't seem to have any of the problems you are describing. Here are a few things to think about/try out...

The thicker the paint, the more pressure it will take to run it through the airbrush. You can always thin your paint out a bit, but trying to mix more in to get it thicker is a nightmare. I use a 50/50 mix of distilled water and isopropyl alcohol as a thinning agent. It allows the paint to dry quickly, as well as keeping the acrylic paint in a homogenized state. I have yet to have any type of problem getting it to adhere to plasic, metal or resin. I also keep a bottle of pure isopropyl handy to blow out the airbrush. Doing this regularly while you are working will help keep it clean.

Thin coats do work better. Try and build up the intensity of the color you are using. It doesn't take long and the results are well worth the time.

I keep a rag or paper towel handy and test spray on it. There are a ton of variables involved. Try and get your paint close to the consistency of milk. You could also go spend the money on a flowmeter, but I really think that would be ovekill for you. Start spraying at 10 - 20 psi, and increase as needed. the closer you are to what you're painting, the tighter the spray pattern. Also the slower you move the more saturation you will have (quick, fast movements from around 6 inches would be a good way to start).

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me, and I'll try to answer them for you!

A "proper" airbrush medium includes a clear acrylic polymer, flow improver, drying retardant, and a standard thinner of isopropyl alcohol or glycerine and water.
You can and many do use isopropyl alcohol or windex, or thinned glycerine, distiller water with flow improver, etc.
To say windex is not healthy for use as a thinner implies that you don't wear a mask, any atomized acrylic paint is not good for you when inhaled.
Here's a site that may help your woes.
http://www.craigcentral.com/models/thinning.asp

I find anywhere in the 30-40 PSI range on my dual action gravity fed is the sweet spot for laying down primer/base coats. When highlighting/doing more detailed work I spray at 15-20 psi.

And as someone mentioned above, a light model might be knocked over by 30 psi. But then I would ask...why aren't you just holding it so you can easily rotate it while airbrushing anyways?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if your paint is "too thin and separating into tiny islands", you might just be spraying too close to the model, I stick at about 12 inches away.

Too thick/clogging is because of too thick paint as you mentioned, for model color/game color I thin with a 50/50 mix of distilled water and windex, which I thin game color/model color at a ratio of 2:1 (2 drops paint, 1 drop of my thinner mix). YMMV of course, and the best thing to do is just learn what the right consistency looks/feels like.

Lastly, I've gotten the separating effect on properly thinned paint before due to...spraying on an unprimered surface. Vallejo model air grey primer is a lifesaver.

I should really have done this from the off but my paint station is in my cellar and I was being lazy.

Here's some images of the test object I used (Original source shampoo bottle):







This was done using Citadel Skull White thinned with a mixture of screenwash and water(60/40) in a ratio of 60 thinner to 40 paint.

The brush was set to 30 PSI and was held around 12" away from the bottle.

It wasn't particularly warm or humid and the brush has just been cleaned using badgers canned airbrush cleaner and then rinsed through with water.

I've painted two of these bottles before starting with a basecoat of canned Skull White and the paint stuck really well. It was actually one of the few times I've used the canned white and been happy with the result.


I just want to say thank you again, the help and support I get on this forum is fantastic. Thank you.

It finally occurred to me to google screen wash. That may be your problem. Some, I might even venture to say "most", windshield wiper solutions contain an additive like rain x to cause pooling which makes it easier to see through the wet screen. This may be and probably is your issue.

gak, that makes a lot of sense.

I'm out and about tomorrow, so I'll grab some isopropyl and distilled water to have a play with until my new paints arrive.

Thanks!

No problem, remember not to thin model air paints as they are premixed. And even if you don't use it as a thinner I use isopropyl alcohol to clean my brush, I found it caused certain but not all colors to separate and caused wierd effects. Like separating the gold out of goblin green.

I've thinned effectively with windex as I mentioned, do you have that or an equivalent in the UK?