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I'm sure this has happened to most of you: you're in the middle of a game with a seemingly level headed individual, fire that blast weapon, and the scatter die is rolled. Pretty simple, you think. The blast goes in the direction that the arrow is facing. This is when things start to get strange. You wonder, 'am I in some alternate reality where the arrow is in fact pointing a different direction?' Your opponent insists that it is pointing in a way that is CLEARLY not where the arrow is going. The crazy thing is, at least in my experience, it isn't even always in their favor! I've had people tell me a blast scattered onto their own units despite my protests. The only thing I've been able to do so far to bring some sort of sense to these people is to stretch out my tape measure a good few feet, place it along the vector of the scatter die, and have them show me a parallel line from the original blast marker. Even then people sometimes do not agree. I feel like, regardless of the circumstance, I always judge the direction fairly. Everyone else seems to be seeing a different arrow.

How do you folks out there handle this situation, and does it come up as often for you as it does for me?

Roll the scatter dice in a box which is lined up with the table edges.

Then move the box to beside the blast marker keeping it lined up. Then use something like a tape measure to show where the line is.

I don't tend to be this pedantic but a friend of mine has a guard army with grenade launchers all over the place so it comes up fairly frequently.

I had not had this problem until a recent game against another guard player, who wasn't to bad in any other since, but constantly saw the little arrow to be slightly tilted in a direction favorable to him.

We got into a few small argument, like when he had done the scatter for one of my blasts and measured it, in the end hitting 7 of his guys, but when I did it because he seemed to do it at a different angel, I found it to actually be hitting 9 of them.

More than a few times I have missed my friends Hive Tyrant because he is hanging forward on his base, and is not centered on his base in the first place, so his back (which I accidently center the template on a lot) is about 2 in. from the center of the base. This has lead to me barely missing it one turn then realizing it wasn't centered the next and would have still been on it's base.

I always try to roll the scatter dice as close to the point of impact as possible to reduce this problem.

I have had the same problem many times and have not found a realistic solution. The box idea seems really clever, I will try that next time.

I think people just have varying degrees of precision when it comes to spacial reasoning.

General Seric wrote:I had not had this problem until a recent game against another guard player, who wasn't to bad in any other since, but constantly saw the little arrow to be slightly tilted in a direction favorable to him.

We got into a few small argument, like when he had done the scatter for one of my blasts and measured it, in the end hitting 7 of his guys, but when I did it because he seemed to do it at a different angel, I found it to actually be hitting 9 of them.

More than a few times I have missed my friends Hive Tyrant because he is hanging forward on his base, and is not centered on his base in the first place, so his back (which I accidently center the template on a lot) is about 2 in. from the center of the base. This has lead to me barely missing it one turn then realizing it wasn't centered the next and would have still been on it's base.

We have adopted the practice of the person being targeted holding and moving the blast template(s). People seem to feel the pressure to be honest, knowing that they are being watched and that their opponent will likely be as honest as they are in turn (so far, no problems).

Jimsolo wrote:I always try to roll the scatter dice as close to the point of impact as possible to reduce this problem.

Troo Dat Jimsolo...

I find myself every time the scatter comes out saying these same lines;
Roll the scatter beside the target, I see it landing here, do you agree? happy? I see 7 orks hit, do you see the same?

Communication is the key, if your opponent isn't talking to you then its a bad game, but if you're not talking to your opponent then its your own fault when you can't reach consensus.

I like the 'roll it in a small tray lined up with the table edge idea.' That gives you a way to ensure accuracy of direction as well as being able to move it wherever you need on the board.

I know! Install a laser diode in the center with fiber optics shooting in the direction of the arrow sides.

You could use that for LOS disputes, too.

Or you could just use a length of rod and lay it on top of the arrow, pointing where it points...Stupid low technology solutions.

Now what we need is a Scatter Die app.


GW should really consider creating one for all those platforms that have Apps. they would even get money for doing so(IIRC, the designer of an App gets royalty fees when Apps are downloaded)

I have a friend who does this all the time: I roll the scatter die (right next to the unit) and the arrow is judged completely differently! The guy will adjust it by at least 30 degrees, sometimes as much as 45 or 50 degrees. Now, I'm not claiming to be perfect, but I have amazing vision for detail, and I can clearly see this is HORRIBLY wrong, and if we take a tape measuring device to check it, the guy will swing the tape measurer to match what he wants. Might try doing it as close as possible and lining up a sheet of looseleaf paper over the arrow to show it. Probably try to alter that too though...it's a sticky situation in my area. It always causes arguments.

(IIRC, the designer of an App gets royalty fees when Apps are downloaded)

Only if the app has a price tag on it. Free apps are free, and generate no income for their designers.

Can you imagine GW having a free anything

of course it would cost money

I just move the measuring tape and strecth it along the arrow. It woks everytime.

Its called parallax error, I'd explain what it is, but wikipedia understands it better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_error

Basically, the only way to do resolve it is to roll the dice as close as possible to the point of impact.

Red whippy sticks help a lot. The ones that come in the starter boxes.

Lay one whippy stick directly on the die, in the direction of the arrow. Hold the other whippy stick and use it to adjust the blast template. It's much easier to see if these sticks are parallel.

It also helps to roll scatter dice near the target.

wittzo wrote:I know! Install a laser diode in the center with fiber optics shooting in the direction of the arrow sides.

You could use that for LOS disputes, too.

I have actually seen this in action a few weeks ago, and it worked very well.

Allright, it wasn't a laser diode fiber optic super-die, but somebody used a very simple laser level to project a straight laser line between the models to see if there was true line of sight between them. Seems like it would be super easy to project the same line on top of the scatter die and extend the line of the arrow all the way across the table.

kronk wrote:Red whippy sticks help a lot. The ones that come in the starter boxes.

Lay one whippy stick directly on the die, in the direction of the arrow. Hold the other whippy stick and use it to adjust the blast template. It's much easier to see if these sticks are parallel.

It also helps to roll scatter dice near the target.

Tried this. Against some opponents (like mine) it won't work, as they'll still twist the stuff. About the only way I can think to make it work is using a tape measurer to make sure the whippy sticks are parallel at both ends-if one end is 5" away from the other stick's end, so must the other end of the first stick be 5" away. That might work. But just saying "look, they're parallel..." yeah, tried that. No good.

Grey Templar wrote:Now what we need is a Scatter Die app.


GW should really consider creating one for all those platforms that have Apps. they would even get money for doing so(IIRC, the designer of an App gets royalty fees when Apps are downloaded)

I have one. It's called Warhammer/40k Combat Assistant. It's (no longer, unfortunately) available on Android Market.
http://www.androidzoom.com/android_applications/tools/warhammer40k-combat-assistant_bkpk.html

lledwey wrote:I'm sure this has happened to most of you: you're in the middle of a game with a seemingly level headed individual, fire that blast weapon, and the scatter die is rolled. Pretty simple, you think. The blast goes in the direction that the arrow is facing. This is when things start to get strange. You wonder, 'am I in some alternate reality where the arrow is in fact pointing a different direction?' Your opponent insists that it is pointing in a way that is CLEARLY not where the arrow is going. The crazy thing is, at least in my experience, it isn't even always in their favor! I've had people tell me a blast scattered onto their own units despite my protests. The only thing I've been able to do so far to bring some sort of sense to these people is to stretch out my tape measure a good few feet, place it along the vector of the scatter die, and have them show me a parallel line from the original blast marker. Even then people sometimes do not agree. I feel like, regardless of the circumstance, I always judge the direction fairly. Everyone else seems to be seeing a different arrow.

How do you folks out there handle this situation, and does it come up as often for you as it does for me?

I've had that (both ways). The only way I've found to mitigate it is drop the dice right next to the item deviating or where the round is targeted to land. Even that is only helpful.


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kronk wrote:Red whippy sticks help a lot. The ones that come in the starter boxes.

Lay one whippy stick directly on the die, in the direction of the arrow. Hold the other whippy stick and use it to adjust the blast template. It's much easier to see if these sticks are parallel.

It also helps to roll scatter dice near the target.

Oh that could indeed be a good idea. I shall try that next time. It has the added bonus of, if there is a disgaree, you can immediately settle it upon the firle dof whippy stick honor!

timetowaste85 wrote:Tried this. Against some opponents (like mine) it won't work, as they'll still twist the stuff. About the only way I can think to make it work is using a tape measurer to make sure the whippy sticks are parallel at both ends-if one end is 5" away from the other stick's end, so must the other end of the first stick be 5" away. That might work. But just saying "look, they're parallel..." yeah, tried that. No good.

Is this at a tournament? Call over the TO if a guy is being a jerk.

At a gamestore? I know a person I won't play again.

Not sure what else to tell you, man. Except sorry and better luck finding fun players next time.

I should invent a scatter dice with a built in laser so when it lands you know where its going. I'LL MAKE BILLIONS!!!!


On topic I run into this some times but only against specific opponents lol....
Either the persons perception is bad or they are willingly trying to get an unfair advantage through it.

get a laser pointer they can be great at times.