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Looking at stock Assault Marines in the SM Codex....

they just need one thing more (IMO)

I was thinking either +1 S when charging OR +1 Init when charging (kinda weak furious charge).

Does anyone else see them as just a tad too weak to work? or am I too close to the tree to see the forest?

Pretty sure this should be in proposed rules.


Anyway, assault marines get +1 A compared to their regular counter parts and get jump packs (or a free drop pod.) They are good as they are. Also, I have to pay more for my raptors

Blitza da warboy wrote:Prett
Anyway, assault marines get +1 A compared to their regular counter parts and get jump packs (or a free drop pod.) They are good as they are. Also, I have to pay more for my raptors

But Raptors get a far, far better weapon selection. Meltaguns most notably. And two of them in 5-men-units to boot. And icons to help other deep-strikers home in on them . And icons to customize the unit

[edit]
And before we forget, Raptors get their Meltaguns in addition to their choppy-weapons, so they don't even forsake the extra attack like most other assaulters taking special weapons.

God Damn.. sometimes it's almost unfair how much awsome is heaped upon the Chaos Marines compared to their poor loyalist counterparts

If assault marines could take Meltaguns they would be perfect(and taken alot more often I suspect)

I can't understand why they don't have Meltaguns as an option. every other Assault Marine varient has the option.

Grey Templar wrote:
I can't understand why they don't have Meltaguns as an option. every other Assault Marine varient has the option.

Templars don't.

Now thats even wierder. the supposedly assault army doesn't have an anti-tank weapon in assault squads.

But Templars can buy Meltabombs for the entire unit!!!!

Zweischneid wrote:But Templars can buy Meltabombs for the entire unit!!!!

And Storm Shields!

Something perfectly reasonable does not need "fixing".

The issue isn't assault marines per se, but the opportunity cost of Jump Packs (i.e. cannot hide in metal boxes).

They've consistently lowered the price of Assault Marines since 3rd edition without changing much else about them. Then in Blood Angels they moved them to troops, and they're still frequently fielded as melee armed tactical squads.

My take is that 10 assault marines should cost the same as 10 tactical marines in a Rhino, and that what they need then is some protection from shooting like the rhino provides...perhaps if Jump packs could turboboost or some such?

Jack

Assault Marines aren't dedicated assault troops, they're fast counter assault and harassing troops. They're fine as is, now that their points cost is lowered significantly.

This is a problem I'm considering as-well, but I feel that at 18pts they are pretty fairly priced, although Jack does raise a good point, but they do get protection by hiding behind cover and those metal boxes it must be added.

Currently, I'm wondering about 1 of these as a possible fix:

- Allow them to take 1 Flamer, Meltagun, Plasma Pistol, Plasmagun or Power Weapon for every 5 men in the unit. This is what I've done for the Raptors in my CSM Fandex.

or, a rule along these kind of lines may be worth adding:
- When the Assault Squad charges, they gain an additional Str4, Initiative 10 attack for that assault phase. This additional attack is not gained however if the Assault Squad charges a unit in cover.

This is intended to represent the momentum with which the Jump Pack propels the Space Marine when he assaults the enemy. Due to the sheer size and strength of the Space Marine, combined with the Toughness and Constitution of their power armour, it could be thought that their mass alone is a formidable weapon when propelled at such speeds by a Jump Pack. The Space Marines would literally smash into the enemy, using their weight as as much of a weapon as their Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, crushing the enemies beneath them.
It's noted how some opponents have been known to freeze when assaulted by Space Marines due to the sheer terror of the moment; this would be amplified by Jump Packs.
The lack of bonus regarding cover is to represent the significant difficulty it would pose when charging into it as the opponents have ample cover and the Space Marines need to use greater caution to avoid flying into trees for example, this also balances it slightly in-game.

I agree with they should be able to take melta guns because they would be pretty fearsome and would be well worth it.

Zweischneid wrote:

Blitza da warboy wrote:Prett
Anyway, assault marines get +1 A compared to their regular counter parts and get jump packs (or a free drop pod.) They are good as they are. Also, I have to pay more for my raptors

But Raptors get a far, far better weapon selection. Meltaguns most notably. And two of them in 5-men-units to boot. And icons to help other deep-strikers home in on them . And icons to customize the unit

[edit]
And before we forget, Raptors get their Meltaguns in addition to their choppy-weapons, so they don't even forsake the extra attack like most other assaulters taking special weapons.

God Damn.. sometimes it's almost unfair how much awsome is heaped upon the Chaos Marines compared to their poor loyalist counterparts

I thought assault marines could take special weapons too? I wasn't saying that raptors were worse than assault marines; only complaining that they cost more

The reason Chaos Marines have extra goodies is because they are one Codex vs SM, BA, SW, etc..

It makes sense that they would get extra options for the sake of balance. While they are obviously lacking in other areas.

As it stands, Assault Marines are well priced and balanced for what they are and what they do, when you factor in what they can get to support them.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:The reason Chaos Marines have extra goodies is because they are one Codex vs SM, BA, SW, etc..

It makes sense that they would get extra options for the sake of balance. While they are obviously lacking in other areas.

As it stands, Assault Marines are well priced and balanced for what they are and what they do, when you factor in what they can get to support them.

I don't see why that works. BA & SW at least have different units and why would they not develop them to compete with one-another?
I'd imagine the reason Raptors have different options stems from them being different units.

As for their being well priced and balanced, that could arguably be true. However, if that is true, why does no-one recommend Assault Marines, very few competitive armies use Assault Marines and they are typically seen as little more than 'bully units' because of their typical weakness?

Brother SRM wrote:Assault Marines aren't dedicated assault troops, they're fast counter assault and harassing troops. They're fine as is, now that their points cost is lowered significantly.

This is correct, and I don't think many times people assume Assault Marines are a good choice for straight up the middle assault duty. I don't often take Assault Marines, but when I do, I primarily deploy them in a support capacity, which I find works much better.

Yes more sm fixes, thats what the game needs pssh more like a bayonet to the face lol flashlight with a big knife. attached to it thats what those damn marines need. fight like us normal people lmao

what are you saying did you read the rules Man you are in direct violation of them by bashing others, use English not texting talk please it is more understandable.

Grey Templar wrote:Now thats even wierder. the supposedly assault army doesn't have an anti-tank weapon in assault squads.

The blonde prettyboys in red sort of took that whole "assault army" title. Black Templars were compensated with the ability to become a weird, Terminator/Land Speeder-based gunline.

As far as fixing ASMs goes...the Blood Angels showed us what they need to be decent. Not great, just decent: Furious Charge, Feel No Pain, and Troop status.

Brother SRM wrote:Assault Marines aren't dedicated assault troops, they're fast counter assault and harassing troops.

True enough. Still, some people take those namings too seriously on occasion, despite feeling nothing odd about fielding their Assault Cannons as Heavy Weapons, and their Heavy Flamers as Assault Weapons.

I'm not saying relative to other 'dexes AM aren't tough. But when looking at other SM units and seeing how they "earn" their points... AM just seem a little (not a lot) lacking.

Letting them even take 1 melta in a squad of ten would help... or a weak FC

EDIT: Still don't get why this is a proposed rule, its about codex and unit balance, not game mechanics or a rule (new or proposed)... no biggy though

Give Assault Marines the option of taking a special CCW(power weapon, fist, etc.) for every five models, along with the plasma pistols.

As was said before, they suffer from opportunity cost. The idea that being able to move 12" makes them worth while vs those protected by a rhino or razorback is ridiculous. The game is centered around killing marines and marines in the open are still in the open whether or not they have jumppacks. Where I do see them excelling at is taking a squad of 10 with 2 flamers and put them in a drop pod with deathwind launchers so they can take care of hordes. But if you play against mech, that's wasted. In the end, they just don't stand up to the ap3 and power weapon rich mechanized environment that 40k has become.