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In the 40k rulebook it states that when shooting at a unit that has units partially in cover than you must determine whether the majority of your shooting units can see that the target unit has no cover to deny them the save and I have a few questions.


1. If my units are well spread and I am firing with only one marine, that can see that the majority of the target unit is not in cover will I deny the target unit their covering save, or is it based on how many of my total unit's (even if they are not shooting) perspective.

2. When firing a few missiles in a silo, if I roll the same direction on a scatter dice, do the templates sit on top of each other?

3. In the section of the rulebook that outlines the rules for shooting at units in cover, it states that units that are out of sight from all the firing units cannot be hit, yet further up in the rulebook it states that even models in a target unit that are completely out of sight from all the firing models can be wounded due to how the combat would have played out realistically, help :0.


I thank you all in advance for reading this and would appreciate your help, thank you very much


-Paul

1. Go by the whole unit.

2. Can you rephrase this one? It's a little unclear.

3. If the entire unit is out of sight, they cannot be hit. However, out of sight models in a unit that is partially in sight can have wounds allocated to them.

Thank you very much

For question 2.

It states that when firing multiple missile launchers in the same unit you work out hits and scattering for the first one normally, then any further blasts after that you simply roll a scatter dice, and then place the second blast on the edge of the first ( in the direction of the scatter or anywhere if you roll HIT).

So what happens if you roll a direction ( any direction you want) for the second blast and place it, but then roll the exact same direction on the third blast, does it get placed on top of the second?

2) Yes, the blast MARKERS sit on top of each other. That isnt an issue.

Thank you, this clears everything up

I was going to put blast templates, but thought blast would be a little shorter



-Paul

Its just there arent any blast templates, in theory. You have blast markers, and then templates. One isnt the other

1. Do NOT go by the whole unit. Go by every model that you have nominated to fire. If you have a squad of 3 guys, 2 of which have partial view of the enemy and 1 has an unobstructed view, you can fire all 3 (or 2) and your opponent gets cover from everyone, or you can fire just the one with a clear LOS and your opponent does not get cover.

2. Do you mean multiple barrage weapons? Or, multiple normal blast weapons? If it's multiple normal blast weapons, you treat each one separately. If it's a barrage weapon, you can end up with multiple templates overlapping.

3. If a unit is entirely out of LOS, it cannot be fired at. If a model is completely out of LOS, but the unit that model is a part of has a model that is in LOS, that model can be killed. You only need LOS on one model from a unit in order for the entire unit to be killed by incoming fire.

"Salvo", not "silo".

The rulebook implies that this is the method of working out multiple blasts even if they are not barrage weapons :0

Salvo hehe, thanks



-Paul

PaulAnthony91 wrote:The rulebook implies that this is the method of working out multiple blasts even if they are not barrage weapons :0

Salvo hehe, thanks



-Paul

No it doesn't. Check out page 30 for Multiple blasts. And, compare and contrast to page 32 for Multiple barrages.

AH!

Thank you very much Grakmar, it would seem I was reading the wrong section, silly me.

Thank you again for clearing this up.


-Paul

PaulAnthony91 wrote:AH!

Thank you very much Grakmar, it would seem I was reading the wrong section, silly me.

Thank you again for clearing this up.


-Paul

No problem! We're here to help.

Grakmar wrote:1. Do NOT go by the whole unit. Go by every model that you have nominated to fire. If you have a squad of 3 guys, 2 of which have partial view of the enemy and 1 has an unobstructed view, you can fire all 3 (or 2) and your opponent gets cover from everyone, or you can fire just the one with a clear LOS and your opponent does not get cover.

Well, I'll be jiggered. Just had a quick recap of the rules and you're right. This is very interesting information indeed...

OH D:

I just came across another blunder, in wound allocation actually.


If Lets say, a 10 man marine squad is locked in combat but only 5 of them are in engaged.

Lets say the squad suffers 5 unsaved wounds, that's one for each member engaged BUT two of the engaged guys have special/heavy weapons.

Now I know you can remove the marines not engaged to represent them jumping into the fray after their brother has fallen.

So do I remove the two special/heavy guys and replace them with two guys at the back to represent this or does nobody jump in to fill in for them.


Thank you


-Paul

In combat, even models that are unengaged can be removed.

If you had 10 marines, 8 equipped the same and 2 differently in an assault and the unit suffered 5 wounds, the wounds could be placed on the 8 like equipped maries removing 5 of them leaving the 2 special weapon marines alive.

See the diagram top right page 39 main rules.

Ah, so even if the 2 special weapon marines were the ones that took the wound, I can remove an unengaged normal marine in his place? :0

No you remove the guys you allocated wounds to that failed them.

*edited* I'm gonna shut up as I don't know 5th ed very well yet

:0

I'm quite confused, so I can allocate wounds to any model in the unit even if they are NOT identical to the model that originally took the hit?

Edit: Edit: Never mind

well, I apologize for confusing you.

I realize now that I need to read 5th ed before I speak.

I am quoting 3rd and 4th ed close combat rules, which may very well have changed.

please take what I say with a grain of salt.

I will stick around to find out the correct answer myself as well as read the book (again) things get fuzzy when you've read several versions of the rules.

It works like this:

Only engaged models can attack. (Engaged models are models in base-to-base with an enemy model, or are in the same unit with an engaged model and within 2" of a model in BTB. Engagement is worked out at the beginning of combat.)

But, every model can be hit with attacks.

So, lets say there's a unit 10 Space Marines fighting a unit of 10 Orks. 5 of the Space Marines are in BTB with all 10 of the Orks. 2 more Space Marines are within 2" of an engaged model, and 3 are outside of that.

The Ork player allocates all his attacks against the Space Marines (his only option unless there's another unit, including IC, involved). He rolls to hit, and then to wound. You then allocate the wounds as normal, and roll for saves the same way as a shooting attack.

So, if you take 8 wounds, you can put all 8 on Marines with standard equipment, and roll for saves. If you take 10 wounds, you have to put 1 wound per model and roll for saves per each wound group.

The 7 Marines that are engaged are not necessarily the first to die. The 3 that are unengaged could die first, depending on how you remove casualties.


Basically, it works exactly the same way as being attacked in shooting. With the exception that an IC doesn't get wounds from the rest of the unit getting, and the unit doesn't get wounds from the IC getting hit.

Paul - you can allocate wounds, both shooting and close combat, to ANYONE in the unit
So, if you allocate them to the special weapon guy, and you fail your save, HE dies.

Thank you very much, this has cleared up my confusion completely




-Paul

If you'd like a fluff explanation for why it works that way, you can still think of someone coming up and taking the heavy weapons place, and picking up the weapon in the process. However, whenever you allocate a wound to that heavy weapon model, it resulted in damage to the weapon, so no one can pick it up.

Or, you can just use Grakmar's explanation.

The key point is that the game doesn't really care about who is where when it comes to wound allocation. Whether they are out of sight of shooting, or if they are several inches away in close combat, it doesn't matter. Any model in a unit can have a wound allocated to them.

Oh, and for how I visualize it:

There are plenty of times a Space Marine with a Missile Launcher dies. But, most of the time, another Marine runs up and grabs the Missile Launcher. Every once in a while (when wound allocation forces you to put one on the Missile Launcher guy), a Marine is killed, and the attack also damages the Missile Launcher, making it inoperable.

Edit: Ninja'd!!!

You have all helped me a lot, thank you all very much

I now understand the rules quite well and I think I am ready to start using the full ruleset

Edit: I will probably still get clobbered

-Paul

Grakmar wrote:Oh, and for how I visualize it:

There are plenty of times a Space Marine with a Missile Launcher dies. But, most of the time, another Marine runs up and grabs the Missile Launcher. Every once in a while (when wound allocation forces you to put one on the Missile Launcher guy), a Marine is killed, and the attack also damages the Missile Launcher, making it inoperable.

Edit: Ninja'd!!!

Wow, I ninja'd someone's fluff interpretation. I think I've done enough for today.

Grakmar wrote:Oh, and for how I visualize it:

There are plenty of times a Space Marine with a Missile Launcher dies. But, most of the time, another Marine runs up and grabs the Missile Launcher.

While that may be fine to visualize it, the rules on page 25 are pretty clear.
Look at the second paragraph under taking saving throws, about halfway through the paragraph;
"Note that if a model carrying a different weapon to the rest of the unit is killed and removed, his squad-members are not allowed to pick up his gun."

So in actual fact, no other marine runs up and grabs the missile launcher. They just stand there, look down and say, "Crap! There goes our long range weapon. Oh well, at least we can now move and shoot!"

That's what the next sentence of his post addressed.