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I have a friend who has started playing DA, I play Blood Angels. He is using 4 squads of the Deathwing termies , I have tried allot of different things to kill them but I just can't find anything that can do much damage, Ive tried spamming plasma cannons and laz cannons I managed 3 wounds total on them(during the entire game). I honestly just don't know what to field to have a chance, I tried fielding land raiders to help protect troops but they spend most of the game shaken from the thunder hammers, I tried rhinos and razorbacks but those just disappeared and the troops inside were next, I tried using no vehicles(or very limited) and the troops never managed to wound. Any idea what I can do?

Just the four squads? How is their equipment set up? What points value? What tactic is it that he is using that is beating you down?

2000 point
4 squads or more
TH/SS with 1 ML
- 1 Squad with an HQ and an Apoth

Usually he lands in front of vehicles so I either have to sit there and get TH to death(and not shoot) or I have to tank shock through and run the whole game and greatly reduce the number of shots I can fire. He usually has 3 preds and 3 LS to start picking off any veichles that get past his termies. as far as troops go it usually ends up me shooting until the TH/SS termies crush them to a pulp.

It would be helpful to know what your list is too. It sounds like you play a mech list, is that correct? If you are, Las/Plas Razorbacks and Auto/Las Predators sound like a solution, combined with Baals for his Speeders.

By my calculation, if you have 5 Las/Plas Razorbacks with a 5 man Meltagun toting squad inside, you should be able to kill a 5 man squad with their combined shooting per turn. Remember, you can move slightly, still fire everything, and then he hits on 4+ in CC during his turn. Add in the fire from 3 Auto/Las Predators and you can kill another 1-2 Terminators. There might also be an opportunity to bubble wrap your tanks with a few Assault Squads, forcing him to attack them instead, buying you more shooting.

MrEconomics wrote:It would be helpful to know what your list is too. It sounds like you play a mech list, is that correct? If you are, Las/Plas Razorbacks and Auto/Las Predators sound like a solution, combined with Baals for his Speeders.

By the way, remember that you can move just over 6" and still fire one gun, which will make him hit on 6+ in CC.

If the DW get the drop on those tanks, they are still dead. CMLs will make a mess out of Preds side armor, if he is smart with DS, and Razorbacks just die. High S /Low AP weapons are not that great against a 3++. Against DW, volume of fire is far more important than AP1-2.

The best way to beat DW is with speed, combined with volume of fire/number of attacks. Outmanuever and force saves....lots of saves.

Yeah, I forgot that Dark Angels can take a CML in TH/SS squads. That makes it rougher.

As for volume of fire, I suppose it depends on whether the squad has an Apothecary or not. Without one, you need 18 Bolter shots to put a Terminator down, but with one you need 36. Those bastards are really hard to kill no matter what, so playing keep away sounds like the way to go.

How about SR's combined with DP dread's. Drop dreads right next to Predators , melta them moreover they work wonders against any infantry . On the other hand flat out with SR's and shoot a MM into speeders (proly in squadron ...so immobilized = destroyed). Than zoom around and TL PC those termies to death. Yeah and i forgor to put Astorah and DC dudes inside one of them (lot of FC attacks + Astoraths reroll on invul saves is your friend) in another should be meph.

Sounds like he loves Deathwing Assault. So start in reserve. Then he has the options of going forward with DWA on an empty board and taking the chance at facing local enemy superiority on his isolated units, or bunching up and floundering with half his units....or he can take the chance at trickling in with the regular reserve rolls.

Also, what the other posters are saying: Weight of attacks. Massive amounts of it, if you are feeling gutsy...throw a FC assault squad at an isolated unit of terminators. Double bonus points if you can get unleash rage involved. Sounds like he runs 100% TH/SS...meaning he gets to eat a full round of shooting, then face the full force of your regular attacks before he gets a chance to swing back. Try to hold in this first phase, then on his assault phase combat tactics out since he cannot sweep...and then do it all again.

Take as much advantage of his low speed, and max squad size of 5 as you can. Get one of his squads into a dark alley and then jump them with your whole army sort of deal.

Does he use 5-man or 10-man squads?

A 5-man can be taken down usually with the Sanguinor. He should be able to eat 1-2.

A death company with a chaplain should be able to eat others. Every time you charge, with re-rolled hits and wounds, you should wipe a terminator squad if you have a few good power weapons.

Also, if you really want to mess with him......

Scouts. Lots of them. 60 friggin' scouts. His missile launchers are wasting their shots killing cheap marines with a worse save, and in hth you don't get a save anyway. Give them all bp/ccw and just start charging away. At least two squads per squad of terminators. Sanguinor nearby for extra attacks and perhaps some priests too for furious charge. Hilarious!

Number of attacks is the only option to force enough rolls. Speed is also essential do deny charges and dictate rules of engagement.

Don't bother bringing LR/RB - LR will get glanced until weaponless and immobilized, and rhino/razorback are made of paper next to TH.

I would try the dreadnought trick once or twice, but I don't expect it will work that well, because TH will get through and de-weapon/immobilize/destroy pretty quickly.

So, my solution would be a combined army of jumpers with PF and LS with MM. You get a lot of mobility and a decent body count. The general strategy is to maneuver enough to make his army lose cohesion, and then destroy it piecemeal by local superiority. The other element is to destroy his support first, if possible, and then run around in circles shooting his termies with your landspeeders.