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So quick Blood Angels question here. Sanguinar gives a +1 attack bubble. A company standard gives a squad +1 attack. Do these stack? I'm sure this has come up before and there might even be a quick answer but I'm lazy. So... what do we think forum?

They stack just fine, since there are two different sources giving +1 attack.

Neeaaaaat. So Honor Guard with a power weapon and bolt pistol in a squad with a Company Banner and within 6 of Sanguinar...gets...5 attacks base, 6 on the charge? Yucky for the bad guys. Also weird to me is that the boost given to a sergant by the Sanguinar is given to a "randomly chosen sargent". Do I...just pick one? Or what? Though that was rather strange.

How many sarge's do you have? Put a number to each and roll a die. There, random selection!

I guess... I just think it's odd that there's no example of a random choice. What if I have 4 sergants? Or 7? The die roll thing gets weird there.

d4 or a d8 rerolling 8?

I am curious about d4? How that works?

BloodTzar wrote:I am curious about d4? How that works?

It is similar to a D6 but it only has 4 sides, and is shaped like a Triangle on all 4 sides so it looks like a pyramid.

As for random selection you can number them 1-7 on your army sheet in a random order and ask your opponent to choose a number that is between 1 and 7 inclusive.

Or any other suitable way to randomize assigning them each a different color and dropping those colored D6 into a bad and pulling one out.

Or drop all of them on the table and the one that does not break is obviously the sergeant.

Or whatever way you want to make sure it is a random event.

Generally I run four sergeants - so I roll a d6 and re-roll 5's and 6's. You can also find 4, 8, 10, 12, and 20-sided dice at most game stores - ask for D&D dice, and you can usually just pick from a selection, or spend a few dollars on a set that has one of each [roleplayers buy these].

Basically pick the die that has equal or more sides than the number of sergeants you have, and go from there.

Doomface81 wrote:I guess... I just think it's odd that there's no example of a random choice. What if I have 4 sergants? Or 7? The die roll thing gets weird there.

1-7 = 2d4-1

Just a thought. (I know we use d6,but if you know you will have that problem, bring the dice to correct it.)

That isnt truly random however; you have weighted for "3" as a result - you can make 3 from (1,3) and (2,2), which is more results than for "1" (1,1) as an example

oh for the.... it might as well be. We could pull out a graphing calculator and tell it to pick a random number and THAT won't truly be random, either, but it's close enough.

Use 2d4-1 if you want. It's random enough and if it's that big of a deal, make the one where "3" is a possibility be a clone sergeant or someone in a basic tactical squad or devastator squad so they don't accuse you of trying to make the terminator sergeant the badass all the time.

Sanguinor + Banner = Baller status

You could always roll a D6 for each Sgt and have the highest roll be the one that has the random buff. In case you roll and its a tie between two or more you have a roll off till one guy has the highest score.

Thanks for the input guys. I just thought it was weird that they wrote that in a rule and provided no context at all for how to carry it out. But it's GW so it's not really news. I feel like opponent picks would be awful cause they'd pick the worst choice, and I feel like me picking justifies his point cost but isn't random and so breaks the rule. Any of these roll off ideas work as far as random goes, but it does mean maybe buying a die for his specific rule that I'll use for nothing else which seems kinda silly. But oh well.

Doomface81 wrote:Thanks for the input guys. I just thought it was weird that they wrote that in a rule and provided no context at all for how to carry it out. But it's GW so it's not really news. I feel like opponent picks would be awful cause they'd pick the worst choice, and I feel like me picking justifies his point cost but isn't random and so breaks the rule. Any of these roll off ideas work as far as random goes, but it does mean maybe buying a die for his specific rule that I'll use for nothing else which seems kinda silly. But oh well.

Why would you buy a special die for that rule?

Just use some of your current D6 and make a roll per Sgt.

Pick a Sgt, then roll one D6, and if you roll a 6 you roll again and add the second number to the first, and if you roll another 6 you add that to the first and roll again, etc. Do this for every Sgt in your army till you have the random one with the highest number.

Spellbound wrote:oh for the.... it might as well be. We could pull out a graphing calculator and tell it to pick a random number and THAT won't truly be random, either, but it's close enough.

No, it realy ISNT random enough. It is significantly more likely that you will end up with a 3 than a 1 - twice as likely. The random number from a graphing calculator is *significantly* more random and, if its a "big" enough calculator may actually BE random, as you have hardware random number generators in even graphing calculators now.

Rolling D6s and finding the highest sarge is an easy way to do it.

Except that it's been found that rounded-corner, pip-drilled d6's roll 1 twice as often as any other number. So now there's twice as high of a chance of rolling a 1! Guess you should go buy a set of casino die, to make sure it's completely random.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Spellbound wrote:oh for the.... it might as well be. We could pull out a graphing calculator and tell it to pick a random number and THAT won't truly be random, either, but it's close enough.

No, it realy ISNT random enough. It is significantly more likely that you will end up with a 3 than a 1 - twice as likely. The random number from a graphing calculator is *significantly* more random and, if its a "big" enough calculator may actually BE random, as you have hardware random number generators in even graphing calculators now.

Rolling D6s and finding the highest sarge is an easy way to do it.

There are no true random numbers generated by computers outside of monitoring radioactive materials

2d4-1 probabilities:
1: 1,1 -> 6.25%
2: 1,2; 2,1 -> 12,5%
3: 1,3; 3,1; 2,2 -> 18,75%
4: 1,4; 4,1; 2,3; 3,2 -> 25%
5: 2,4; 4,2; 3,3 -> 18,75%
6: 3,4; 4,3 -> 12,5%
7: 4,4 -> 6,25%

So, you could just place you best sergeant at position #4 and he would get the bonus one out of four games, while sergeants at 1 and 7 would almost never get it. In other words, doing so would be cheating.

D20 really are available at any gaming store, and not expensive at all. No need for funky math tricks to figure out a random model.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spellbound wrote:Except that it's been found that rounded-corner, pip-drilled d6's roll 1 twice as often as any other number. So now there's twice as high of a chance of rolling a 1! Guess you should go buy a set of casino die, to make sure it's completely random.

Urban myth, nothing more. Any dice which were not made as part of a discount-product(dollar-store stuff for example) are sufficiently random and nowhere near the number you claim.

Casino dice are horribly easy to cheat with, and are not random at all, unless you hit a board(terrain, vehicle) while rolling them.

Spellbound wrote:Except that it's been found that rounded-corner, pip-drilled d6's roll 1 twice as often as any other number. So now there's twice as high of a chance of rolling a 1! Guess you should go buy a set of casino die, to make sure it's completely random.

Sigh

You're advocating a method that is known to be flawed, and wont accept it is flawed despite a VERY easy method, easier than the one you suggested, being available

I'd like to point out that rolling 2d4 without modifiers only gives 7 results; you can't roll 1 on two dice.

Which is why they said 2D4-1

I NEVER said to roll 2d4-1. I suggested he roll a die that's got MORE sides than he has sergeants, and re-roll the extras. So if he has seven sergeants, he should use a D8, not 2d4-1, and re-roll if he gets an 8.

I'm saying that that method is good enough - 1 in 4 chance of getting the sergeant he wants is far from a guarantee, and having used the Sanguinor, the Sergeant can still fail morale and run away, get killed by a powerfist or shooting, be nailed by the broodlord's psychic power etc. etc.

It's not a game winner.

And unless the guy was a liar, a university prof made a post long ago where he abused his students by making them count results of dice rolled, and 1 came up twice as often as any other result when using typical chessex dice. So if his entire post was a complete, very detailed fabrication, I guess I've been fooled. Otherwise, that's how it is and if you can cheat rolling casino dice [which you can] then you can cheat with any die, ever, always. It's in how you roll it.

So for COMPLETELY random, they should probably also mix that die with a handful of other dice and roll it all together, to prevent palming the die, angling the roll, etc. etc.

Or, we can stop OBSESSING over it being COMPLETELY RANDOM and let them do it however they want, including 2d4-1, if they have 2d4 and d6's and nothing else, and accept that if they want a very much NOT game-winning result to have a 1 in 4 instead of a 1 in 6 or 7 [not a big difference between the three], then a little favor in certain odds is fine.

Create a spinning chart like in Storm of Magic (or games like Twister, etc) and stick pieces of paper with the names or numbers of your sergeants around the chart as evenly as possible. Give it a spin and there you go

Or get yourself an octopus and submerge your sergeants in his tank. Whichever one the octopus feels up first, that's your chosen sergeant.

No obsession there, just why use something which is definitely NOT random, not even close to "good enough", when a simple D6 roll off IS random and is EASIER?

Thats not "obsession", thats incredulity at using a provably worse in EVERY way system when an easier one is available.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No obsession there, just why use something which is definitely NOT random, not even close to "good enough", when a simple D6 roll off IS random and is EASIER?

Thats not "obsession", thats incredulity at using a provably worse in EVERY way system when an easier one is available.

Agreed. Speaking as a blood angel player, I would feel like I was cheating if I used 2d4 or any method which weighted the results so that they were not equally likely. Two dice added form a bell curve of results, with the middle numbers being far more likely than the outlying high and low totals. There are plenty of easy ways to get an equal chance of any given sgt being the guy just using D6s.

1 Sgt: It's him.
2 Sgts: 1-3 it's Joe, 5-6 it's Larry.
3 Sgts: Roll it as a D3.
4 Sgts: Roll the d6, re-roll 5 or 6.
5. Sgts: Roll the d6, re-roll 6s.
6. Sgts: Roll the die.
7+Sgts: Roll a d6 for each, the highest result is the lucky winner. Ties for highest just roll-off between the tied models.

Over 6 sergeants?

Split them into two groups, 1-3 roll again betwee the first group, 4-6 roll again between the 2nd group.