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I'm trying to figure out if these would be good games to get into and try with my local gaming club, and I was curious if any of you have tried either system, and how well they work compared to their not-similar-at-all GW counterparts (So overall game balance, play time, major rants or raves about the system/models/rules, that sort of thing). I've read the rules and the army lists, but it's kind of hard figuring out what works well and what doesn't on paper.

Plus, is there any news/rumors on release dates or factions in either system? I wasn't able to find anything more than a preorder info for the elf, dwarf, ork/maurader, and forgefather minis...

Thanks for any advice!

For Warpath, the rules are in beta with its model and rules coming out at year's end.

For Kings of War, the rules are out and for free on their website. High Elves, Dwarves, Undead, Absyal Dwarves, and Orcs all have models released. More Orcs, Goblins, and Twilight Elves are coming soon.

Tried out the Warpath rules with some stand in models. They seem ok but are only at Beta testing ATM. It's a whole lot different to 40k I'll tell you that for nowt....although Alessio has only written 2 lists to choose from and one (Forgefathers/Squats) was hugely overpowered.

KoW thou, that's different. The models are pretty cool and the rule set is sound. Games do run different to WFB and can get very tactical indeed.

Although if you do play WFB the Mantic mini's make great proxys for GW ones. Cheaper too......

sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Although if you do play WFB the Mantic mini's make great proxys for GW ones. Cheaper too......

^This may or may not have crossed my mind (along with everyone else who plays GW games and has seen the mantic stuff).

How long does a KoW game take as compared to a similar WHFB, and how well does the "nerve" system work? I'm especially curious about Nerve, as it seems like it would work really well (Big units are really hard to kill, small weak units don't die 100% of the time to the enemy charges/shooting) or really, really poorly (Big units roll crap and flee after taking the bare minimum of wounds, or small units hold out indefinately against larger ones). I do, however, love the defense/attack skill rolls instead of the stupid tables, although the abstraction of not removing models from attacks or rolling based on the number of enemies in BtB seems like it would mess with my head a bit.

@Cyporiean: Do they have the army lists for dwarves and (high) elves? I'd be curious to see what options they had, and I couldn't find anything under those armies apart from a "Coming Soon!" banner and a sale on their army box.

All of the downloads for the rules and the army lists are here, including dwarves and elves:

http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html

The link in my sig has more info, and in general, just browse the mantic website for all the info, it's easily found.

I've played a few games of Kings of War, it's a great game, Nerve system works well, and is much less annoying than adding up combat resolution in warhammer.

The game is easy to learn and highly tactical. Games are very quick, it takes about half as long to play a game of Kings of War compared to warhammer.

Not removing models doesn't take much getting used to at all. Just think of the unit as a single, very large, model because that's effectively what it is in KoW in terms of the game mechanics. It speeds up the game brilliantly.

I've read the rules and the army lists, but it's kind of hard figuring out what works well and what doesn't on paper.

That's because everything works well. The army lists are very well-balanced in terms of rules and points values.

Unlike GW's games there simply are no "useless units" that are too many points so no-one ever takes them, or "overpowered" units that everyone always takes because their points value is too low.

The army lists get updated once per year and the aim is to create a perfectly-balanced game. You win a game of Kings of War through your tactics on the tabletop, not by writing a good army list. Even the most poorly-written army list will still stand a fighting chance against a well-written list as long as you play very well and get a bit lucky.

Cool! I was wondering if Warpath (broken army lists aside) has similarly intuitive/well-written rules, since at first glance it seems like a mismash of KoW and 40K (Kinda like 2nd Ed 40K had wierd elements of WHFB iirc).

Plus, the no-removing-models seems like it would set up awesome opportunities for centerpiece regiments (Undead rising from a graveyard, elves emerging from the trees, dwarves protecting a mine entrance, etc).

Finally, a quick pair of rule questions (If you'll humor me ):
1)If I get a unit of say 10 guys, am I required to deploy them as 5 wide 2 deep, or can I do 6 or 7 wide and 1 and a bit deep? (Sorta like how WHFB can do regiments atm)
2) Are combats "You attack on your turn, and then they attack on theirs," or is it like WHFB in that one unit attacks and tehn gets attacked back by the enemy? I suspect the former, but it's hard to figure from the rules.

Thanks a ton for the input. I really want to try this system now...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, I was wondering, the Elite bonus seems underpowered (Rerolling 1 die is nice for 10 guys, but kinda weak for 40). Do you know if they're planning on scaling this up at a later point?

Warpath seems to be the weaker of the two since it is essentially KoW in space but I havent played too much with these rulesets. I do hear though that KoW is a very nice pickup game, simple rules and less mucking about with magic and rule inconsistencies and other things that plague Fantasy

As best I can tell, there is no reason to deploy in anything other than 5 or 10 wide. In fact, I'm not terribly sure if you can deploy in anything other than 5 or 10 wide, and only specific units seem to be able to deploy 10 wide at all!

1) No, has to be 5 wide, 2 deep.
2) The former.

Also, Elite is not re-rolling 1 die, it is re-rolling 2 dice. You get one re-roll to hit, and one re-roll to wound. As for it's lack of scaling, that is taken to account in the points values of the units. Scaling it would add more complexity.