Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm trying to figure out a special case in AROs, where both models shoot each other (or dodge) that I'm confused about since watching the old how to play video on Beasts of War, then remember something I saw in Corvus Belli's own tutorial videos.

Say you have an Active Model taking an order to shoot at Enemy Model, the Enemy Model takes an ARO to shoot back at the Active Model. Both have a BS of 13.

The Active Model with a burst of 3 rolls an 18 (failure), 7, and 8.

The Enemy Model rolls an 11 on the ARO.

Since the Enemy Model's single success was higher than both Active Model's two successes, do both the Active Model's successes get cancelled out? Or, does it only cancel out one of the successes and both models basically shoot each other?

In a similar case, What if the Active Model Rolls a 6, 7, and 12; all successes. Then, the Enemy Model rolls a 10, a success, but less than the 12, but over the 6 and 7. What happens in this situation?

Vertrucio wrote:Since the Enemy Model's single success was higher than both Active Model's two successes, do both the Active Model's successes get cancelled out? Or, does it only cancel out one of the successes and both models basically shoot each other?

Both shots of the Active Miniature are beated by the higher succesful shot of the Reacting Miniature.

In a similar case, What if the Active Model Rolls a 6, 7, and 12; all successes. Then, the Enemy Model rolls a 10, a success, but less than the 12, but over the 6 and 7. What happens in this situation?

The 12 of the Active Miniature is a succesfull impact. It beats the 10 of the Reactive miniature. The lower values of the active miniature are nulified by the 10 of the enemy.

In Face to face rolls only one wins.
The Beasts of War videos about rules without the french guy, Mike Marchal, are usually WRONG.

Can I get a reference on that ruling? I'm working my way through the rulebook and when I read this, I realized that I didn't know the answer, went back to check and discovered the rules irritatingly ambiguous.

The actual rules don't say. The examples they give don't cover this situation until the third one which, frustratingly, doesn't work itself out to a conclusion that would answer the question.

I played a demo game at Salute 2011 in which this exact situation came up and I was told that my opponent's successful ftf roll canceled only one successful shot from my burst.

R.

Yeah... about that...

The ruling actually comes from a later video made by Beasts of War with one of the Infinity staff there to explain the game. He's a bit hard to understand but he basically handles an ARO the way Bobbafett describes it. There's also a few scattered thread on their forum.

Any higher successes cancels out any rolls below it.

What's funny is that the previous video of them going through the quick start rules has them making the mistake you describe above. There is no English version of the rules that goes through this very common case.

This seems like another mistake of the English translation (even though they're on revision 2 of the rules, grrr...). Apparently it's all there in the Spanish version, but someone keeps botching the English translation.

Bobbafett is correct, and you prob had an incorrect Demo.. one of the dangerous of fans doing demos.

This has been brought up several time in various forms. In a Face to Face roll the winner of the roll negates his opponent's roll, however his opponent's roll can still cut off any lower rolls then his.

Player A has a modified BS of 13
Player B has a modified BS of 12
Player A rolls 1, 3, 12
Player B rolls 7
Player A wins negating the Player B hit of 7, however Player A's 1 and 3 are negated as well since the 7 was higher. The result is one hit by Player A.

The only example of this in the book is in the Total Reaction section of the basic rulebook, page 169.

"For example: Fusilier Angus is in an open field, 12 inches from a
Yaókòng (a Remote with the Total Reaction Special Skill). Angus
spends an Order to shoot the Yaókòng. The Remote reacts with his
ARO, shooting. As he has the Total Reaction Special Skill, he shoots
4 times (His HMG has B=4) instead of 1, which would be the case
normally. Angus makes 3 BS Rolls (His Combi Rifle has B=3). His BS
is 12+3 (distance MOD) =15. He rolls a 3 (Success), 17 (Failure) and
12 (Success). The Yaókòng has BS=11+3 (Distance MOD). He rolls 4
times and obtains 2 (Success), 14 (Critical), 13 (Success), 20 (Failure).
The best roll is the Yaókòng’s (14, Critical), so he will hits with all his
shots that are better than Angus’ best (12). The Yaókòng hits 2 times,
with his rolls of 14 (Critical) and 13. Angus suffers a Wound directly
(Critical) and must make 1 ARM Roll."

That's great and makes perfect sense. Thanks, O Infinity ninjas.

R.