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Well I'm in the planning stages of a blood angels army(2k pts) and I'm not quite sure what to think of Sanguinary Guard, I have Dante but never thought much about the ability to make guard troop choices, are they worth it? what's everyone's opinion on them?

I like them. You can equip them all differently for wound allocation. But you can not just rush them forward. You have to use them wisely.

Why would wound allocation matter for 1 wound models?

I think they are not worth it. They are pretty similar to Terminators, but they get power swords instead of power fists and can't get heavy weapons. In exchange, they get to move like jump infantry. If you want a DoA close-combat death star, use Vanguard Veterans. If you want a more traditional death star, upgrade an Honor Guard.

With a 5 man squad it is easy to do more wounds than models. This allows the extra wounds to go on models with the AP2,AP1 wounds on it. It can really save a model or two.

Also unlike those other units, the Sang Guard can be Troops, which mean they don't just contest objectives, they claim them.

They are only good with Dante, but that's not an issue here. I give mine an infernus pistol or two along with the one dante already has and drop right behind an isolated or important tank. It's important you don't just drop them in the middle of your opponents army though as they are too expensive to be a suicide unit. Either kill the enemies bigger guns first or drop near an isolated target.

Nicholas wrote:They are only good with Dante, but that's not an issue here. I give mine an infernus pistol or two along with the one dante already has and drop right behind an isolated or important tank. It's important you don't just drop them in the middle of your opponents army though as they are too expensive to be a suicide unit. Either kill the enemies bigger guns first or drop near an isolated target.

I do have dante, so do you think i should use them? i mean its a good tactic to deep strike with him, but couldnt i do that with any good anti tank unit with jetpacks?

shoggoth wrote:

Nicholas wrote:They are only good with Dante, but that's not an issue here. I give mine an infernus pistol or two along with the one dante already has and drop right behind an isolated or important tank. It's important you don't just drop them in the middle of your opponents army though as they are too expensive to be a suicide unit. Either kill the enemies bigger guns first or drop near an isolated target.

I do have dante, so do you think i should use them? i mean its a good tactic to deep strike with him, but couldnt i do that with any good anti tank unit with jetpacks?

I might just have a soft spot for them, but the SG with Dante can deal with more units than just anti Tank and can capture objectives for you. I found they do good against MEQ with all master crafted PW if you crack out a banner it's 4-5 attacks on the charge each. They are not as good vs hordes but hold their own. Just avoid AP 2

Nicholas wrote:

shoggoth wrote:

Nicholas wrote:They are only good with Dante, but that's not an issue here. I give mine an infernus pistol or two along with the one dante already has and drop right behind an isolated or important tank. It's important you don't just drop them in the middle of your opponents army though as they are too expensive to be a suicide unit. Either kill the enemies bigger guns first or drop near an isolated target.

I do have dante, so do you think i should use them? i mean its a good tactic to deep strike with him, but couldnt i do that with any good anti tank unit with jetpacks?

I might just have a soft spot for them, but the SG with Dante can deal with more units than just anti Tank and can capture objectives for you. I found they do good against MEQ with all master crafted PW if you crack out a banner it's 4-5 attacks on the charge each. They are not as good vs hordes but hold their own. Just avoid AP 2

How would they fair against Grey knight paladins and purifiers?

I wouldn't put them against Paladins or Purifiers at all myself. In either case an abundance of halberds would put them all to death, and you need to remember Dante isn't an EW so he'll go down to force weapons as quickly as any other non EW despite hitting at the same time as the halberds.

I might put them against Purifiers with <2 or 3 halberds, ideally a small unit of 5 or 6, IF they have furious charge. I wouldn't waste them against Paladins in any case though, I just don't see them doing enough damage to justify the loss.

shoggoth wrote:

Nicholas wrote:They are only good with Dante, but that's not an issue here. I give mine an infernus pistol or two along with the one dante already has and drop right behind an isolated or important tank. It's important you don't just drop them in the middle of your opponents army though as they are too expensive to be a suicide unit. Either kill the enemies bigger guns first or drop near an isolated target.

I do have dante, so do you think i should use them? i mean its a good tactic to deep strike with him, but couldnt i do that with any good anti tank unit with jetpacks?

Well, Dante and a Sang. Guard with inferno pistols can deep strike close enough to an enemy tank to pop it. But as said, this could be a suicide mission.

Syrell wrote:I wouldn't put them against Paladins or Purifiers at all myself. In either case an abundance of halberds would put them all to death, and you need to remember Dante isn't an EW so he'll go down to force weapons as quickly as any other non EW despite hitting at the same time as the halberds.

I might put them against Purifiers with <2 or 3 halberds, ideally a small unit of 5 or 6, IF they have furious charge. I wouldn't waste them against Paladins in any case though, I just don't see them doing enough damage to justify the loss.

one of my friends uses purifiers and paladins with nemesis dual falchions and maybe 1 halberd per squad?

im just looking for a good counter for them.

Sanguinary Guard really are not that bad despite what many people will say. The reason that people avoid them is that they require some good handling to make them work. At 2k i run dante, libby, 2 priests, 2 Assault Squads, 2 Sanguinary Guard, and 2 Vanguard Squads. My list is no way optimized but the Sanguinary Guard do very well. I'm of the opinion that Dante's squad should most of time just drop behind LOS blocking terrain and use that to set up next turn charges. Too often I see people dropping dante and SG beside landraiders only to have them wreck or explode and the occupants get out and just beat down dante and his unit and then complain that the unit sucks.. Use assault squads, vanguard, and honor guard with meltas to destroy tanks on the drop. Be a little ballsy when dropping with these other squads, you have DOA!

On the issue of paladins/purifiers. Shoot paladins with melta guns first. If you want to assault them afterward I would do it with an assault squad. They have more bodies to absorb blows before the fist strikes to insta-gib them. This goes with any unit carrying halberds. Shoot them first to try and drop a couple halberds. Dante would probably do well against a depleted purifier squad. Hitting 6-7 times at S5 and I7 with a master crafted weapon (assuming there is a priest nearby) should drop a good number of purifiers.

Just my $.02.

pdawg517 wrote:Sanguinary Guard really are not that bad despite what many people will say. The reason that people avoid them is that they require some good handling to make them work. At 2k i run dante, libby, 2 priests, 2 Assault Squads, 2 Sanguinary Guard, and 2 Vanguard Squads. My list is no way optimized but the Sanguinary Guard do very well. I'm of the opinion that Dante's squad should most of time just drop behind LOS blocking terrain and use that to set up next turn charges. Too often I see people dropping dante and SG beside landraiders only to have them wreck or explode and the occupants get out and just beat down dante and his unit and then complain that the unit sucks.. Use assault squads, vanguard, and honor guard with meltas to destroy tanks on the drop. Be a little ballsy when dropping with these other squads, you have DOA!

On the issue of paladins/purifiers. Shoot paladins with melta guns first. If you want to assault them afterward I would do it with an assault squad. They have more bodies to absorb blows before the fist strikes to insta-gib them. This goes with any unit carrying halberds. Shoot them first to try and drop a couple halberds. Dante would probably do well against a depleted purifier squad. Hitting 6-7 times at S5 and I7 with a master crafted weapon (assuming there is a priest nearby) should drop a good number of purifiers.

Just my $.02.

thanks btw for your two cents. Would a death company dreadnought be any good against them? considering they are str 4 with Nemesis falchions, wouldn't say a blood talon dread become untouchable?

I would say no because if the daemon hammer lives through (every GK unit I see has one) then it will probably hit at S10 due to hammerhand. If you think you can either kill it before it hits you or kill it in shooting then it will become unstoppable.

A little clarification for dropping dante and a SG squad. MOST of the time I drop behind LOS blocking terrain. There are times when it is beneficial to have them drop in behind tanks. This will take some time and practice to start noticing when it is beneficial.

It depends on what else the GK player is running. If he has a hammer in the squad or a librarian near by, chances are that the dread would die a horrible death. Might of titan + potentially multiple hammerhands gives every guy strength 6 with 2D6 armour pen. With a hammer, things only get worse because with only one successful hammerhand, that hammer becomes strength 10. If he does not run any of those then the dread would be ideal for dropping grey knights in combat since their nemesis force weapons mean nothing.

Sorry, I started writing before pdawg had posted.

Forgot about Might of Titan! That would make for a bad day with your dreads. Even worse cause the squad could become S7. Hammerhand with squad, hammerhand with libby, and might of titan with libby. That could hurt bad!

My friend from what i see doesn't use hammer nor does he use a librarian, I think the only thing i see that could take out my dread would be one of his HQs which is crowe and Draigo.

He has a gunship but if I'm in combat its kinda useless.

shoggoth wrote:

pdawg517 wrote:Sanguinary Guard really are not that bad despite what many people will say. The reason that people avoid them is that they require some good handling to make them work. At 2k i run dante, libby, 2 priests, 2 Assault Squads, 2 Sanguinary Guard, and 2 Vanguard Squads. My list is no way optimized but the Sanguinary Guard do very well. I'm of the opinion that Dante's squad should most of time just drop behind LOS blocking terrain and use that to set up next turn charges. Too often I see people dropping dante and SG beside landraiders only to have them wreck or explode and the occupants get out and just beat down dante and his unit and then complain that the unit sucks.. Use assault squads, vanguard, and honor guard with meltas to destroy tanks on the drop. Be a little ballsy when dropping with these other squads, you have DOA!

On the issue of paladins/purifiers. Shoot paladins with melta guns first. If you want to assault them afterward I would do it with an assault squad. They have more bodies to absorb blows before the fist strikes to insta-gib them. This goes with any unit carrying halberds. Shoot them first to try and drop a couple halberds. Dante would probably do well against a depleted purifier squad. Hitting 6-7 times at S5 and I7 with a master crafted weapon (assuming there is a priest nearby) should drop a good number of purifiers.

Just my $.02.

thanks btw for your two cents. Would a death company dreadnought be any good against them? considering they are str 4 with Nemesis falchions, wouldn't say a blood talon dread become untouchable?

Yeah, a Furioso or DC with blood talons is absolutely mean vs. GK units, since he will hit them until he misses or all enemies are dead.