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Leigen_Zero wrote:As for bolter ammo, I don't think it would be that heavy - the ammunition doesn't look very big (judging by official pictures, a bolt round is ~2x5cm) - but the weapon itself looks like it'd weigh a dozen kilos at least, which is much more than any modern assault rifle does. And of course it all adds up, considering that a Guardsman would still have to carry other gear as well...
I also imagine Guardsmen marching a lot more than the more mobile Marines/Sisters, so heavy weight would seriously hamper their efficiency and slowly steal away their strength!

Have you been in the military? A full combat load of 5.56 rounds (for an M4 / M16) is heavy. (This is in addition to all of your other gear, to include water which is heavy too) That is .223 caliber or 1/4" (roughly) diameter. Boltgun ammo is .75 caliber, meaning the rounds are 3/4" in diameter. This is a HUGE bullet. It is literally 3 times the width of today's bullet (twice the size if you're former Warsaw Pact and like to run around with AK74s and what not). And, with the way characters fire willy nilly in the fluff, EVERYONE would be out of ammo in the first 12 seconds of combat.

A heavy bolter is 1.00 caliber or 1" in diameter. To put things in perspective, todays machine guns are 7.62 (roughly 30 caliber) and the ma deuce at .50 cal. Have you ever held a .50 caliber round? It is big, fat, and thick. Now, imagine carrying 400 of those. This is why they are belt fed and mounted on vehicles.

Now, back to the original topic, bolters are not issued as common weapons because the logistics of carrying and supplying that kind of ammunition would be unfeasible. Standard combat load is around 400 rounds (in today's terms). Now, triple it in size and multiply by the kabillions of PDF and IG around the universe. It is much simpler to give them recyclable las clips.

Lastly, firing a .75 caliber round would NOT break your arm.... ever. The physics required to generate the necessary kickback from a round of that size would require the bullet to be travelling at extremely high speeds. But, while it would not break your arm, this would be a wild weapon to control on full automatic. (However, this may be controllable as well. Please look at the AA-12 of today. A fully automatic 12 gauge shotgun with zero recoil. If we can do it today, I am sure it is possible in the far flung future of aliens and space travel).

Lynata wrote: but the idea that a Guardsman would be overwhelmed by the weight of just "one or two magazines" is still somewhat ridiculous (I doubt it'll be heavier than an entire box of M60 or M249 ammo). Keep in mind that a Commissar's bolt pistol uses identical ammunition, and boltguns are (afaik) still an IG wargear upgrade.

Yes, but who would go into combat with only two magazines? One in your rifle. At least six more on your person. Then toss in water, armor, any other equipment, and it all adds up.

Plus, how big would these magazines have to be? They are basically holding 12 gauge shotgun shells. They would be huge and still only hold like 10 rounds.

And, as far as the heavy bolter is concerned, I once carried an entire .50 cal (barrel removed and strapped to my ruck) with the tripod on a gun sling. I carried this on a 12 mile road march. This was to prove a point (and to win a bet). No ammo. Not much else but an MRE and a poncho liner (iirc). It completely kicked my butt (and I am a 6'3" 260 lb - not fat... then - guy). Ammunition would have been impossible. A heavy bolter would be twice the barrel size of a .50 cal. So, definitely some creative license going on here with the ICs in the fiction.

Magtherion_Soulsaver wrote:

Night's Blood wrote:Why do most modern tanks have a heavy machine gun?

Protection against infantry and light vehicles.

Gotta love that .50 cal!!!

M2 for the win. When I was in Korea, we had 4 HMMWVs. Two with .50 cals and two with MK-19 automatic grenade launchers. To this day, I am still not sure which one I like better.

Melissia wrote:

Green is Best! wrote:Plus, how big would these magazines have to be? They are basically holding 12 gauge shotgun shells. They would be huge and still only hold like 10 rounds.

24 bolter shells is normal.

So. 24 rounds at 3/4" per round means you have 18" of shells alone. This would give you a clip around 1" thick and 20" tall. That is pretty big for a magazine. Even if you cross-stacked (?), you might condense that down to 12", but it would be like 1.5" thick. Either way, big and cumbersome and yet still.... totally awesome.