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2011/08/01 21:06:48
Subject: LOS and template
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Crazed Cultist of Khorne
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Do template weapons need line of site? Or as long as you are touching a model it counts as a hit?
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2011/08/01 21:08:46
Subject: LOS and template
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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You must follow the normal shooting rules, so the unit you target you MUST have LOS to.
You then follow the template rules, which requires you to macimise the number of models you cover - and this can require you to hit models out of LOs. This is fine.
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2011/08/01 21:48:47
Subject: LOS and template
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Crazed Cultist of Khorne
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Goodo. Thnx alot
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2011/08/01 22:46:13
Subject: LOS and template
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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nosferatu1001 wrote:You must follow the normal shooting rules, so the unit you target you MUST have LOS to.
You then follow the template rules, which requires you to macimise the number of models you cover - and this can require you to hit models out of LOs. This is fine.
Nos has it right. This of course applies to template weapons, as well as all non-barrage blast markers. Barrage weapons can fire at something in LoS or out of LoS, but if they fire at a target they can not see you will scatter the full distance regardless of the firers BS. Edit: Spelling.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/01 22:46:44
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
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2011/08/01 23:49:04
Subject: Re:LOS and template
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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I'm just wondering, does this mean you have to have LOS to each model you hit with the template, or just one?
In other words, if only three models in the target unit are in LOS, are these the only three you can target with the template, or does drawing LOS to one model allow you to maximize hits using models you can't see?
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2011/08/01 23:57:27
Subject: LOS and template
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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You don't target models, you target the unit. That applies to all shooting.
So if you can see a single model from the unit, you can target the unit. The template doesn't have to be placed over visible models.
The number of models that are out of sight only applies for determining cover saves.
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2011/08/02 01:06:39
Subject: LOS and template
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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That's what I figured, but the template rules are just enough out of the ordinary to make me question the process.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2011/08/02 03:19:20
Subject: LOS and template
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Pete Haines
Springfield, MA
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Blast markers do have to be placed on a model you actually see.
In the case of templates I see nothing about hitting things that would normally be impossible to hit. Now I know after 2nd 40k became really abstract, but this can be a little much. So say there is a fully enclosed building with 1 entrance. You have a guy against the wall, and the enemy has a unit on the other side of the wall in a huge cluster, and 1 model in the entrance.
So your guy can target the unit he sees, but either must or may place the template directly through the wall to get the huge horde? This is realistic in an abstract system (if anything abtract can be realistic) in that it represents the melee goons charging through a continuous stream of fire and taking casualties.
Yet if the goons are not a melee unit, then they just crossed the line into (the following was edited before it was posted) full moron, you never go full moron.
Maybe the flamer guy could've went outside before firing, and in some cases that makes it realistic again, but in many cases there is just no way.
Now this is partially offset because the unit is almost entirely out of sight, so they get cover. Then this is ruined because it's a template, so no cover.
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"A rule is only as good as the reasoning behind it."
I played Ordo Malleus since before it had a codex. |
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2011/08/02 04:42:10
Subject: LOS and template
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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erikwfg wrote:In the case of templates I see nothing about hitting things that would normally be impossible to hit. Now I know after 2nd 40k became really abstract, but this can be a little much. So say there is a fully enclosed building with 1 entrance. You have a guy against the wall, and the enemy has a unit on the other side of the wall in a huge cluster, and 1 model in the entrance.
So your guy can target the unit he sees, but either must or may place the template directly through the wall to get the huge horde?
Yes, the template can be placed over models behind the wall, resulting in you potentially hitting models that you can't see... exactly as would happen if you are firing a non-template weapon at the same unit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/02 04:43:01
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2011/08/02 18:50:34
Subject: LOS and template
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Pete Haines
Springfield, MA
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insaniak wrote:Yes, the template can be placed over models behind the wall, resulting in you potentially hitting models that you can't see... exactly as would happen if you are firing a non-template weapon at the same unit.
As good as it is to see consistency, or at least not having to have an exception to the normal rules, I don't think I will ever be able to look at this situation as anything other than a failure in the system.
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"A rule is only as good as the reasoning behind it."
I played Ordo Malleus since before it had a codex. |
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2011/08/02 20:21:30
Subject: LOS and template
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Like many of the abstractions that are required to make a game using static miniatures function, that's all down to how you choose to perceive the rule.
In this case, you know roughly where the unit is because you can see at least one of the models in it. So you saturate the surrounding area with fire, and so can potentially wound other models in the unit despite not being able to see them.
Standing behind a wall stops you from being seen... but it takes a pretty darn strong wall to stop bullets. We get a little blase about cover, based on Hollywood silliness with bullets being stopped by car doors or regular house walls and the like, but in reality these sorts of things are very little protection.
Template weapons bathe an area with fire/goo/mono-filament/whatever, and flow around intervening obstacles... so again, so long as you know roughly where your target is, you can potentially hurt it.
Frankly, the move towards being able to affect models in the unit that you can't actually see is one of the better changes introduced introduced into the system.
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