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Hello. Me again.

I'm in the process of building chimeras (should that be chimerae?), & I'm just wondering about weapon choices. Heavy flamers are always a good bet, but one has to get close to use them, I think that for me, that might be the weaker of the 3 choices.

So it comes down to heavy bolter as the hull weapon & then heavy bolter or multilaser in the turret.

They both have the same range & number of shots. Multilasers have the edge on strength, being able to glance AV12, by contrast, bolters have the edge on AP. So, is it more useful to have one of each, for versatility, or more useful to have two heavy bolters.

Have I over looked the flamer a little? any advice is appreciated...

- Jack

Hello me again
Heavy flamers ignore Cover and are ap4. Use them for Chimeras that will move towerd the enemy.
Multilasers are superior to H. Bolters. Str 6 counts for a lot (wounding MEQs on a 2+ e.g.).Hope that helped.

Against all comers, your best bet is turret Multilaser and hull Heavy Flamer, if you are moving.

If it is standing still with a PIS inside with an AC, then you might want a hull H Bolter, but I would still go hull Heavy Flamer for those things that get to close.

well, Im running veteran squads sans heavy weapons, at least for the time being in those chimeras, so is the consensus heavy flamers & multilasers?

Yes, for Vets, turret multilasers and hull heavy flamers are the conventional wisdom.

Depends on the contents of the chimera.

If you expect the chimera to move ml/hf, especially if the squad inside has meltas or flamers.

If you expect the chimera to sit still then hb/hf is good. An example night be a ccs with a heavy weapon or moo.

I agree the multilaser is the best choice for the turret, but I do not like the hull flamer. The problem is the chimera is not a fast vehicle, so if you move your 12 inches to get in range with it, you cannot shoot it. You have to be within 6 inches plus template size of the enemy at the start of your turn, which most likely means you were within their assault range the previous turn. Most likely, you will get one turn of shooting before they hit you.

An additional problem is that the flamer template cannot be shot if any of your own troops are touched by it. So, if you are transporting something that needs to get closer, e.g. a special weapons vet squad, you may not be allowed to shoot because of it. By contrast, you can always shoot the heavy bolter regardless of intervening friendly models. That is where the HB is better.

Yet another benefit to the HB is that if the chimera gets immobilized, it continues to be very useful as a bunker with a 36 inch machinegun. By contrast, the flamer is short-range, so the enemy can avoid it much more easily.

Finally, once you build the model, you may decide to use the chimera as a bunker holding HWS in your gun line. An HB will still be very useful in this role but a HF will be a waste.

Following the conventional wisdom, I put flamers on my chimeras and now I regret it, as I virtually always proxy for HBs.

Heavy flamers and multi laser
"If your not moving chimaeras forward, your doing it wrong"
-Thoughts of every leafblower player out there

@Necrontyr
You only move the 12 inches the first turn. The point of the flamer is to have something to counter hordes, flame the people your melta guns just killed, and to kill things that rely on cover. The rest of the time you will probably be moving 6" for the anti tank capabilities of the scatter laser.

Why would your IG ever be in the way of a heavy flamer? There is no reason to disembark unless the chimaera is immobilized at which point you probably wont be flaming all game.

You should be having about 8+ chimaeras and most will make it to the place where them and the meltas inside can be effective. The HB doesn't really fit a role imo also. It cant pen any tank. a 6 to glance is not worth it. also it will get 1 or 2 wounds average against an infantry units while a flamer will get.... most likely a lot more

Ya this is the only reason you should be using a HB. Honestly though the best IG build right now is leafblower so I don't know why you would try to make a gunline besides fluff reasons, and why else ask a forum if you don't want your army to be as competitive as possible.

overall though to each his own. I've seen people who swear by gun lines and the only real use for the flamers if you are running lots of chimaeras (7+). If your running like 6-8 tanks in your entire army.... stick with the HBs.

A heavy bolter shooting for six turns will, on average, hit nine times, and do six wounds to T4. Assuming that the target are in cover, that's down to three wounds.

A heavy flamer can do three wounds to T4 by hitting 5 models with a flamer template.

So, what seems more likely? Getting to shoot the heavy bolter every turn (never moving, never getting shaken), or getting one good shot with the heavy flamer?

I like fluff, so I don't do the leafblower. My IG is blobs on foot guarding heavy tanks and artillery from assault. I take maybe 2-3 chimeras at most for some mobility and/or as bunkers for officers. HF are a total waste for this army build. I do not win often with it, but is is fun, and it feels like real IG because of the fluffiness. Chimera spam just does not do it for me. The last thing guardsmen would do is go chase after monsters in paper boxes on wheels. People do it to win the game because 5th ed. makes tanks exceedingly vulnerable to infantry, especially uber infantry.

As this is a game, fun is more important than competitiveness. I still like strategy and ideas as an intellectual exercise, but spamlists just tell me how broken the rules are.


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Polonius wrote:A heavy bolter shooting for six turns will, on average, hit nine times, and do six wounds to T4. Assuming that the target are in cover, that's down to three wounds.

A heavy flamer can do three wounds to T4 by hitting 5 models with a flamer template.

So, what seems more likely? Getting to shoot the heavy bolter every turn (never moving, never getting shaken), or getting one good shot with the heavy flamer?

Depends on the opponent. I play against DE a lot. HB glances their vehicles on a 5+ and has 3 shots. Considering assault transport and fleet, the DE will hit you before you flame them but after you shoot their transport with the HB. Once they get to you, they have enough haywire to make sure you never do anything again. So, the first shot will be your last, and it will not be HF.

Necrontyr40k wrote:I agree the multilaser is the best choice for the turret, but I do not like the hull flamer. The problem is the chimera is not a fast vehicle, so if you move your 12 inches to get in range with it, you cannot shoot it. You have to be within 6 inches plus template size of the enemy at the start of your turn, which most likely means you were within their assault range the previous turn. Most likely, you will get one turn of shooting before they hit you.

An additional problem is that the flamer template cannot be shot if any of your own troops are touched by it. So, if you are transporting something that needs to get closer, e.g. a special weapons vet squad, you may not be allowed to shoot because of it. By contrast, you can always shoot the heavy bolter regardless of intervening friendly models. That is where the HB is better.

Yet another benefit to the HB is that if the chimera gets immobilized, it continues to be very useful as a bunker with a 36 inch machinegun. By contrast, the flamer is short-range, so the enemy can avoid it much more easily.

Finally, once you build the model, you may decide to use the chimera as a bunker holding HWS in your gun line. An HB will still be very useful in this role but a HF will be a waste.

Following the conventional wisdom, I put flamers on my chimeras and now I regret it, as I virtually always proxy for HBs.

^^If you want to win, ignore that entire post...it is full of tactical errors and bad advice.

Use ML/HF on all your Chimeras. You will win more and will generally be a happier person

Also, the HF and HB fit into the hull w/o being glued in, so they can always be swapped. Never glue them in.

The fact is the taking a Heavy Flamer isn't just conventional wisdom. Heavy Flamers can create game changing opportunities (as well as being a great defense against hordes). The Heavy bolter is an additional 3 BS3 S5 shots a turn at best. Not much of a game changer.

With the amount of long range high strength firepower available to IG you should have no problems knocking out vehicles. It's once you have to make that push for objectives and knock out the surviving infantry that is tough. Heavy flamers make this job much easier, especially when facing other IG, Orks, Dark Eldar and Nids.

In a recent game my hull mounted Heavy Flamer really came through, almost single handedly destroying a unit of Deep-Striking Stormtroopers. I think that this was primarily because my opponent didn't know the Chimera had a heavy flamer, thinking it was a Heavy Bolter like all his Chimeras.

Necrontyr40k wrote:I agree the multilaser is the best choice for the turret, but I do not like the hull flamer. The problem is the chimera is not a fast vehicle, so if you move your 12 inches to get in range with it, you cannot shoot it. You have to be within 6 inches plus template size of the enemy at the start of your turn, which most likely means you were within their assault range the previous turn. Most likely, you will get one turn of shooting before they hit you.

An additional problem is that the flamer template cannot be shot if any of your own troops are touched by it. So, if you are transporting something that needs to get closer, e.g. a special weapons vet squad, you may not be allowed to shoot because of it. By contrast, you can always shoot the heavy bolter regardless of intervening friendly models. That is where the HB is better.

Yet another benefit to the HB is that if the chimera gets immobilized, it continues to be very useful as a bunker with a 36 inch machinegun. By contrast, the flamer is short-range, so the enemy can avoid it much more easily.

Finally, once you build the model, you may decide to use the chimera as a bunker holding HWS in your gun line. An HB will still be very useful in this role but a HF will be a waste.

Following the conventional wisdom, I put flamers on my chimeras and now I regret it, as I virtually always proxy for HBs.

The hf punishes squads for moving just short of assault range 7-10" for most squads, or 5 or 6" if they were unlucky moving through difficult terrain.

The other trick with hf is to have the forward chimera in assault range, and supporting chimera out of assault range but close enough to advance 6" and hf whatever assaulted the lead chimera. As long as the chimera are spread out enough to prevent multi assaults the multiple hf ensure any assault on a chimera will result in the assaulting squad getting heqvy flamered.

As far a hf go the best way to get in range is to make your opponent come to you by out gunning them in the long ranged firepower department. The goal of most armies is to close with ig as fast as possible, and to cc everything. If a cc opponent doesn't close with my hf then the hf did their job, because slugging it out with ig at long range isn't a good option for most armies.

The #1 problem I have with hb is meq. If a chimera sits still krak grenades auto hit, which makes tac marines or any meq a big threat. Staying mobile cuts that damage in half.

Definitely a viable tactic. Throwing forward a nice roadblock Chimera (moving 12") and letting the enemy assault it really helps when you want the enemy to bunch up. The you can unload with 2 or 3 supporting Chimera Heavy Flamers and knock out whatever fell for the trap.

Plus the squads inside are in rapid fire/melta range of whoever isn't killed by the hf. I have never seen a de player choose to. Knock out my multilaser instead of my hf.

Coversave-ignoring weaponry are force multipliers. For other parts of the IG armory in this category (Eradicator, Colossus) you pay a premium to deny coversaves. But hull heavy flamers are free on all the chimera hulls, so why not take them?

Heavy Bolter only beats out Multilaser vs T3 4+ save opponents (both will wound on 2+ but the heavy bolter will deny the armorsave) but this is a pretty rare scenario as units that are T3 4+ save are generally the Elite squads of Eldar/DE/Guard/etc and they will probably be bottled up in transports anyway.

You'd have to be stopped to make use of both the multilaser/heavy bolter combo, and if you are, you better be damn far since you are waving a big sign that says "Punch me with your huge metal fist please!" to anything that might be able to streak into assault range.

The hull flamer gets the Heavy Bolter profile effect but auto-hits models it touches and ignores cover. So in the scenarios where its actually applicable its actually better. Area terrain/enemy gone to ground/stealthers? Torch em!

I run mine at 65pts with ML/HB/HS. 9 shots if I sit still, 6 if I move 6.

Seems like pretty useful advice.

thanks guys.


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Seems like pretty useful advice.

thanks guys.

Lukus83 wrote:The fact is the taking a Heavy Flamer isn't just conventional wisdom. Heavy Flamers can create game changing opportunities (as well as being a great defense against hordes). The Heavy bolter is an additional 3 BS3 S5 shots a turn at best. Not much of a game changer.

Depends on your army composition and opponent. Against orks and swarming nids, sure they are useful because they scare the opponent and you do not roll to hit.

In my meta, there are several DE players, only 1 regular nid who likes nidzilla, and 1 occasional kan wall ork. I need HB to help pop light vehicles. Which brings me to:

With the amount of long range high strength firepower available to IG you should have no problems knocking out vehicles. It's once you have to make that push for objectives and knock out the surviving infantry that is tough. Heavy flamers make this job much easier, especially when facing other IG, Orks, Dark Eldar and Nids.

I like fluffy IG with colossi, executioner, and hydras. I may bring 1-2 vendettas depending on the points cost. I also take AC HWS. This army has a lot of firepower but it is concentrated in a small number of squads. Since each squad has to fire at the same target and DE are MSU, it is difficult to pop many vehicles in the same turn. For example, the 12 TL shots from the hydras will blow up whatever I fire it at, but only that - I cannot split them among multiple ravagers or venoms. That is why the couple of command vehicles I take need ML/HB/HS and are bunkers for my HWS, so they need to stay put. Each chimera counts as a separate squad, which means it can independently target another venom or ravager. In such an army, the HB is much more useful than the HF.


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Lukus83 wrote:Definitely a viable tactic. Throwing forward a nice roadblock Chimera (moving 12") and letting the enemy assault it really helps when you want the enemy to bunch up. The you can unload with 2 or 3 supporting Chimera Heavy Flamers and knock out whatever fell for the trap.

That works well if they either fail to damage it, so you can motor away on your turn, or if they destroy it. If on the other hand it gets immobilized or stunned, it may be very difficult to use the flamers, because the general rules do not allow you to fire at your own units. So, if the flamer template even touches the chimera in front, it is an illegal shot. HB does not have such problems.

The bottom line is if you are playing the chimera spam, HF makes sense because you cannot easily get a template weapon that ignores cover, since your special weapon slots in the vets are filled with melta guns and plasma guns instead of flamers. But if you are not playing the chimera spam, the HB can be a good choice.

My Chimeras have many many different load outs and variants. (I also run 8 of them) Most are the Multilaser and Heavy Bolter combo. That strength 6 Multilaser is not bad. Two have Heavy Bolter turrets. Those are nasty for inflicting multiple wounds on models. Especially, Orks, Eldar, DE, Nids and even characters such as Daemon Princes. Two of mine also have hull Flamers. Usually these are the ones that bring my command squad or my Stormtroopers forward to engage the enemy up close and personal. I like running the Heavy Bolters on those because they are good at at killing guys in terrain and hordes and large groups of guys.

Whaqt to do with a hf when the enemy is in cc with a stunned/imobolized chimera on your turn.

#1 you can shoot into cc if the other side is attacking a tank.

#2 the units assaulting a chimera are most likely going to be in a straight line. Just remember to enforce the rule that if a unit can make it into base to base contact it must go into base to base contact.

#3 the hf has 2 perfectly straight lines on the flame template. Line one of them up parrelel to the chasis of the chimera in cc and it should nail plenty of models.

ML/HF is so the way to go. With enough ML you can very easily shut down opposing transports or easily force saves on troops. The only benefit to the HB is the AP 4, but everyone gets cover so what’s the point.

The HF really is a game changer. and I can understand the lure to the ML/HB/HS set up. It seems like some heavy firepower and it is. But it leaves your list open to horde badly, this is where the flamers really come in and make it possible to trap and torch. This is the primary function of them. But its always beneficial to let you opponents know if they get to close they will need to deal with dozens of flamer wounds as well as the continued hammering from the rest of your list.