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Hey mates. Well recently I have been running my General on a Griffion the last couple of games, and to be quite honest I really like it a lot. Though its not the greatest, it still can pack a punch in the right moments, and it has saved me a number of times, either with supporting one of my parent units or using its 18 inch leadership for my State Troop regiments. However, today after beating a Wood Elf player, another guy at my store who also plays Empire says that he will never run the Griffon until they fix it or make it worth its points. At a first glance, I can see why because the Griffon is 200 points, and all we get for it is WS5, S5, T5, I5, A4, W4, and with no armor save at all. Its still alright in my opinion, but I do agree with him that it isnt worth 200 points. The way I see it, they need to either give the Griffon at least 4+ Tough Hide save so it has at least some protection against missiles and magic, but I'm just curious to know what you guys all believe that needs to be done in order to make the Griffon a more effective mount in this edition.

Griffons can be fixed by making them dragons.

Drop points cost.

Or give an armour option

They just need to drop the points cost. It's too many points to send what is, ultimately, just an empire character flying around the board. The griffon itself has decent damage output, but it can't compete with, and shouldn't be statted up to compete with the big monsters, and that's the only way you could make it worth 200 points.

So really, I think a points decrease is the best option.

I think it should br more like 180.
As for armor maybe some sort of barding which also gives the monster a 5+.

Well, after running it in a couple of games, the Griffon already as decent killing power, but what the Griffon really lacks is defense or an armor save of any kind against anything, which I find odd since pretty much almost every other single monster has one. So would either giving the Griffon either a 5+ tough hide save or giving the Empire a magic item that gives both the Griffon and the Gnereal a ward save be too much to ask?

well as it's the empire an armour option would be more to fluff and a an amoured bird thing would look awesome IMHO

sebster wrote:They just need to drop the points cost. It's too many points to send what is, ultimately, just an empire character flying around the board.

If you just want a flying character put it on a pegasus for a quarter of the price. The griffon main asset is thunderstomp.

jouso wrote:If you just want a flying character put it on a pegasus for a quarter of the price. The griffon main asset is thunderstomp.

Well, obviously. Point being that if you want a flying character that can put out really good damage, then the Pegasus just can't cut it. It's a nuisance unit, albeit a very good one for the price.

Which means you opt for the Griffon and it's much greater damage. But ultimately, it's just ferrying about an Empire General and his plainly underwhelming 3 attacks. If it were ferrying about one of the more combat capable characters from the other books, it might be worth something closer to 200 points, but it isn't.

So it really needs to take that into account, and see it's price drop accordingly.

I'm hoping they take the Demigryphon from Forge World, and add it in as a 'poor man's gryphon' whilst making the Griffon far better.

sebster wrote:

jouso wrote:If you just want a flying character put it on a pegasus for a quarter of the price. The griffon main asset is thunderstomp.

Well, obviously. Point being that if you want a flying character that can put out really good damage, then the Pegasus just can't cut it. It's a nuisance unit, albeit a very good one for the price.

A captain on a pegasus is one of the best units for its price. It can hunt lone characters and warmachines, tie up monsters for a couple of turns, etc.

Back to the griffon, I see few people using it, not just because of high price or lack of armour, but because fewer and fewer empire generals do anything other than a gunline or pope wagon. I generally field it because I like the model (a modified HE griffon from the IoB set) and because I run a "traditional" infantry/cavalry list with max 3 warmachines (generally 2, a hellblaster plus one of either cannon or mortar).

It's true that an empire general is one of the least impressive around, but it's cheap, and there are pretty interesting magic item loadouts. Plus being a flyer means you usually get to pick fights rather than the other way around.

Griffons are decent stat wise. Barding for them would be a good option.

Point cost should be around 150. 180 with barding.

jouso wrote:A captain on a pegasus is one of the best units for its price. It can hunt lone characters and warmachines, tie up monsters for a couple of turns, etc.

Yes, it is. It's quite underpriced as a nuisance unit. That is, units that can hunt lone characters and warmachines, do general nuisance kind of work. I'm not really sure how you're trying to disagree with me there.

Back to the griffon, I see few people using it, not just because of high price or lack of armour, but because fewer and fewer empire generals do anything other than a gunline or pope wagon. I generally field it because I like the model (a modified HE griffon from the IoB set) and because I run a "traditional" infantry/cavalry list with max 3 warmachines (generally 2, a hellblaster plus one of either cannon or mortar).

Yeah, it's good to break away from the standard as much as possible, especially when the standard is as boring as the stand and deliver gun line. While I like my artillery and missile troops, with a mass of infantry in bus formation, I do try and put a fair whack of points into other units that can break up the tedium of just standing still hoping to kill enough bad guys before he reaches my lines. Thing is, I tend to stay away from the griffon because at that price, it'll take up most of my allowance for fun stuff. It's either a griffon or a 50 man horde of halberdiers that I'll use to get up and attack the enemy. Or it's two flanking units of pistoliers, and a captain on a pegasus.