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Poll
Is this a viable tournament list?
Too soft
Needs minor changes
Fine as it is
Quite powerful
Cheese

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Made in au
Alluring Mounted Daemonette





Melbourne

Hey guys
Just started a Skaven army that will eventually build up into a 3000 points tournament list. Would welcome all criticism, but preferably useful ones.
3000 points Clan Mors list
Lords:
Queek Headtaker 215 pts
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell with dispel scroll and 1 warpstone token 480 pts
Heroes:
Chieftain BSB with halberd and armor of destiny 122 pts
Plague Priest on plague furnace, level 2, with flail 289 pts
Core:
40 Stormvermin with full command, razor standard and Queek's upgrade (+1 WS and S) 510 pts
40 Stormvermin with full command 305 pts
Special:
40 Plague Monks with full command and plague banner 335 pts
6 rat ogres with 3 packmasters 264 pts
Rare:
2 Doomwheels
2 Warp lightning cannons

Basically how this army will work is that Queek and the BSB go with the upgraded Stormvermin, the other Stormvermin unit go with the screaming bell, the plague monks go with the plague furnace. This gives me 3 big combat units that are pretty much unbreakable (literally in the case of the bell and furnace), while the rat ogres provide some hard hitting knight killers. The Doomwheels protect my flanks and wreck smaller units, while the cannons will break enemy war machines or snipe characters. The grey seer using speels of ruin and the plague priest using spells of plague should give me a commanding advantage in the magic phase. Overall, this list offers too many targets to take out even with gunline, while my main combat units are pretty much gaurenteed to get into combat. Thoughts?

Glory to the Twelfth! Glory to Angron!

‎"Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls. The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does. That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."

—Captain Khârn of the World Eaters Legion's 8th Assault Company, from his unpublished treatise The Eighteen Legions 
   
Made in us
Raging Rat Ogre



colorado

I voted "minor changes".
Are you going for Best General (battle points) or Best Over all (total scores combined)?
Either way, your list could use some improvements.
First off, you can't buy more warp stone tokens for your seer. The WST's and dispell scroll are both arcane items.
Seer on bell could really use skalm. The ablity to heal those lost wounds from miscastes/random shooting attacks is well worth the cost of skalm.
Queek and his storm vermin are typicly not worth the points. Queek has no ward, and his up-graded storm vermin are expencive, and still die in droves.
Clan rats are better bell pushers due to you do not want the bell in combat. Opponents can target the seer and just kill him off the bell in HTH. It's best to have the bell sit back and be used to grant LOS and 18" LD bubble to the seer.
Get some slave units. The uber units you've got are good, but WoC chosen, HE white lions, and things of that nature will punk your guys hard. Use the slaves to tar pit them and keep them out of the game as long as possible.
Empire/dwarf/skaven gunlines will just pop the bell/furnace with cannon shots, WE/DE will pelt them with a few hundred arrows and bring down the bell/furnace or unit pushing it, so your army is not gunline proof.
Doom wheels and rat ogres are to taste, but in a WAAC army, swap them for HPA and gutter runners.
If you really want an unbreakable WAAC skaven army, drop queek, all storm vermin, doom wheels, and rat ogres.
Pick up another plague priest on furnace, 2-3 units of 40ish slaves, 2 HPA's, and spend the rest of your points on a unit of clanrats or 2.
Going for Best Over All is a whole different story though, and is very subjective to people's opionions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/04 13:13:56


Cause the chicks dig it...
2000 (RT era Thousand Sons), 2000 (Undivided), 3000 (demons)
2500 (Skaven), 3000! (Chaos Dwarf), 2500 (Warriors of Chaos)
(RT era World Eaters WIP) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






WSTs are specifically noted in the Skaven book as not taking up your Arcane Items allocation. It's worth noting though that a Grey Seer begins the game with d3 warpstone tokens, so that 15 points might be better spent elsewhere.
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





A few things:

- the poll will probably be skewed hopelessly toward "minor changes", since everyone will probably suggest one or two things be done differently.

- I am also not a fan of Queek. Now, S5 AP Stormvermin will probably do well. 11pts/model, right? Is that with shields? At this point, I think the investment would be worth it. Compared to Dwarf Warriors, I'd say these guys do well (better WS and I and M for -1 T). If you're going to do this, though, I might suggest giving then the Stormbanner (AP is nice, but probably not too necessary, and for 45pts) and increasing the unit size to allow them to survive some Death Frenzy and hope they kill more than they give up.

- The other unit of Stormvermin could probably turn into Clanrats with similar success (the 13 result on the Bell won't be as cool, but se la vie or whatever). You could get more bodies, more toys, etc.

- Give the Chieftain the Talisman of Preservation and the Charmed Shield. Same points, better protection (he can't use the Shield in combat, but he'll still benefit from it's one-use ability with it strapped to his back).
The Priest could use some goodies as well. I've found that the Foul Pendant and the Portents of Verminous Doom works pretty well.

- Skalm on the Seer. And the Ironcurse Icon.

- A thought: what about the Razor Standard on the Monks? Less useful at any one point than the Plague Banner, but useful always? I'm not sure which would be better. Probably the Plague Banner, but it's worth pondering.

- Where's your Doomrocketgineer?

- I'd drop the Wheels for an A-bomb. Less survivable but...he'll do good things, versus zzzaping a few guys, killing a few more, and then running off.

- Gutter Runners and/or a Rat Dart.

I think you've got some really good, brutal ideas, and I don't actually have that many suggestions...they're just complicated, vague, and general ones, so they take up a lot of space, sense I'm hopelessly verbose.
Good luck.

 
   
Made in us
Raging Rat Ogre



colorado

Good to know about the warpstone tokens, thanks Steamdragon. Though I never buy any, due to the seer starting with D3.
13 on the bell is good, but you don't want the bell in HTH. So the 13 isn't really what you want on the chart.
How is the HPA less survivable? I think the regen, ITP, and stubborn 8 would make it more so than the doom wheel.

Cause the chicks dig it...
2000 (RT era Thousand Sons), 2000 (Undivided), 3000 (demons)
2500 (Skaven), 3000! (Chaos Dwarf), 2500 (Warriors of Chaos)
(RT era World Eaters WIP) 
   
Made in au
Alluring Mounted Daemonette





Melbourne

I'm 4 for 4 wins all against vampire counts using this army atm
I find myself wondering whether the doomwheel is worth it or not
Other than that, I find this army fairly good. Queek's Stormvermin can beat down Grave Guard with ease, while a death frenzied plague monk unit cOmbined with the 17 result on the bell is unstoppable with 5 attacks per monk and all 40 attacking as if they were in base to base

Glory to the Twelfth! Glory to Angron!

‎"Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls. The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does. That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."

—Captain Khârn of the World Eaters Legion's 8th Assault Company, from his unpublished treatise The Eighteen Legions 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





1. The Bell can be in combat, depending. Just...not against good stuff.

2. 2 Doomwheels are more survivable than one A-bomb.

3. I do believe that the "all models attack as if in b2b" was changed to "all models not in b2b may make a supporting attack". Not sure though.

 
   
Made in us
Crafty Bray Shaman




NOVA

Most of the things that people are saying here make a lot of sense to me.

For my part, I actually like Queek. He's a beast in combat (no ward is lame), and he's the only ld 8 general we can take. With SfN there's not much difference between 7 and 8, but every little bit helps.

The main points I would like to echo from the other posters is that a unit of clanrats instead of the second unit of SV may serve you better vs some targets. Even if you take 50 clanrats, you should have some points left over for a couple of weapon teams. I personally think a couple of PWMs would take out knights better than 6 ROgres. A unit of globadiers could help you in that regard and be cheaper. I would also take the flaming banner for the SV, since S5 already subtracts 2 from your opponent's armor save.

Overall, I do believe you have a pretty solid list, but it doesn't seem to be optimized/min-maxed, which I believe is what you are looking for from a tournament list.

 
   
 
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