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A few of my friends have recently gotten into 40k though and I decided I might as well too. What I want to know though, is since I've already read up on most of the basic rules, is what type of army I should choose to start playing with. My only request is that it not be Space Marine, Chaos Space Marines, or Tyranide. I know that takes away the obvious choices, but pretty much everyone at my store is some type of space marine or a tyranide, so I'd like to kinda stand out a bit. I've thought about it and at the moment I'm split between choosing EDIT: Ork and Chaos Daemons (even though everyone on earth has told me not to choose the latter) but any other suggestions are welcome too. Thanks in advance though for the help guys, I've been lurking this forum for a while and everyone seems to be really helpful and friendly.

Welcome to Dakka!

What kind of game do you want to play? I mean, do you want to emphasis shooting or close combat? Do you want a handful of elite models, or a horde? (Think - how much time do you want to spend on painting?)

Also, are you wanting to play just to have fun and goof off, or do you want to make a semi-competitive army?

I'd also just read some fluff. Find out what suits you, even if it IS sub-optimal. When I first started, I was drawn to Dark Angels based on their back story and how dark it was. But you might fall in love with the quirkiness of the Orks, or the Eldar, or what-have-you. Also look at the models you will be using - you will not want to play an army whose models you think look like gak.

Last, see what kind of deals you can find. I started Tyranids when I got a bunch of models from a friend for 50$, and fell into the whole 'nid mania from there.

well, we're starting out with only the compulsory sets of 2 troops and 1 hq, so I guess just small scale close combat battles. Yes at the moment though we are kinda goofing off but we might get more serious about it in the future.

Tau, Necron or Chaos Daemons... whoa.

It's a shame about Daemons, because they are a really cool codex. Not competitive, due to the randomness, but fun. When I was looking for a new army, I considered them. What really killed it for me was that a) the models are mostly old, ugly and metal. b) because they're a metal swarm army they cost BANK. So, you're paying top dollar for an army that doesn't look too good, and isn't that competitive.

Necron could be ok... as long as you wait a few months, because their new codex is apparently coming out next, along with a bunch of new models (not official, just really well grounded rumor).

Tau need a new codex pretty badly, from what I hear, and they're farther off than Necrons. They just cost too much for what they do in most cases. Unless you absolutely have to have appleseed style mechs and hovertanks, I would pass.

You picked 3 of the toughests races, at least for right now.

You should let us know what you like, but 3 races spring to mind:

1- Dark Eldar- brand new codex that everyone seems to be really happy with. If you like to fly around and shoot stuff, they're for you. They have hoverships that look like Chinese Junks, including sails, as their basic transport tank. Note that you can paint them in ways other than Tron, or black/pink/purple.

2- Imperial Guard- if you want to play the "good guys" but not SM, these are for you. If you're at all into WW2 stuff, this is the army that lets you play WW2 40k (but with ogres, psychics and those chicken walkers from Star Wars.) They mostly take lots of tanks, sit back and shoot. Probably the shootiest army in the game.

3- Orks. This is the one I settled on. I liked the Rube Goldberg/American musclecar feel of the speed freeks. I thought the Battlewagon looked pimp, and they made my girlfriend laugh. They're a solid, middle of the pack army right now. They do some things really well (getting lots of bodies into assault), and some things really poorly (killing tanks from range).

Here's what I would do:

1- look at the model range on the GW website. Refuse to play any army that you don't like the looks of.

2- look at army lists to see what people actually play, commonly. See if it matches up with what you'd like to do. There are always some units in any codex that don't really work. Unfortunately, some are cool-looking

3- figure out if you can afford it. Some armies are much more expensive than others. Daemons can easily be double the (real world money) cost of Grey Knights, for example.

digi laser wrote:Tau, Necron or Chaos Daemons... whoa.

It's a shame about Daemons, because they are a really cool codex. Not competitive, due to the randomness, but fun. When I was looking for a new army, I considered them. What really killed it for me was that a) the models are mostly old, ugly and metal. b) because they're a metal swarm army they cost BANK. So, you're paying top dollar for an army that doesn't look too good, and isn't that competitive.

Daemons a swarm army? There troops are comparable in point costs to Space Marines, I don't know what you mean by a swarm army. The really ugly models are mainly the old Greater Daemons, and some of the Slanesh and Nurgle stuff, the newer plastic stuff is generally good and some of the other metal models.

digi laser wrote:
2- Imperial Guard- if you want to play the "good guys" but not SM, these are for you. If you're at all into WW2 stuff, this is the army that lets you play WW2 40k (but with ogres, psychics and those chicken walkers from Star Wars.) They mostly take lots of tanks, sit back and shoot. Probably the shootiest army in the game.

IG are also a very versatile army, they can be used as armor heavy, mechanized veterans, infantry gun line horde, and they can even be used to assault with power blobs.

2 troops and an HQ makes it rough. because some armies can be cool with that but others (like vanilla marines) have bad troop choices. honestly for small point sgames it is hard to beat orks. you could have a nob w/ pk and bp attached to a unit of 29 boys times 2 and a kff mek for a hard to beat lw points army

big mek kff 85

30 boyz w/nob bp and pk 220
30 boyz w/nob bp and pk 220

525 total, simple tactics and a goosd chance to make it as everything gets a 5+ cover save

if you're limiting it to 500 points you can drop 5 boys to lose 30 points and add eavy armor to the big mek for a 4+ armor save to be at 500 exactly .

General Seric wrote:
Daemons a swarm army? There troops are comparable in point costs to Space Marines, I don't know what you mean by a swarm army. The really ugly models are mainly the old Greater Daemons, and some of the Slanesh and Nurgle stuff, the newer plastic stuff is generally good and some of the other metal models.

Agreed. I hate the way Daemonettes look. If I start a Daemons army, then I'll most likely end up sculpting all of my daemonettes by hand. (Which I think would be fun to learn, but I'm crazy like that.)

Back on topic: Orks, Dark Eldar, IG are probably going to be your best bet, depending upon which one appeals to you the most.

Dark Eldar is by far your best bet. They have new models and they play really well. Plus you would have the chance to have a lot of citadel finecast if you play them which would be cool.

Tau. Everybody loves Tau.

Kasrkai wrote:Tau. Everybody loves Tau.

Actually I changed my mind on my last post. My Tau are a blast to play even though they get wrecked sometime. Fight for the Greater Good!

General Seric wrote:

digi laser wrote:Tau, Necron or Chaos Daemons... whoa.

It's a shame about Daemons, because they are a really cool codex. Not competitive, due to the randomness, but fun. When I was looking for a new army, I considered them. What really killed it for me was that a) the models are mostly old, ugly and metal. b) because they're a metal swarm army they cost BANK. So, you're paying top dollar for an army that doesn't look too good, and isn't that competitive.

Daemons a swarm army? There troops are comparable in point costs to Space Marines, I don't know what you mean by a swarm army. The really ugly models are mainly the old Greater Daemons, and some of the Slanesh and Nurgle stuff, the newer plastic stuff is generally good and some of the other metal models.

digi laser wrote:
2- Imperial Guard- if you want to play the "good guys" but not SM, these are for you. If you're at all into WW2 stuff, this is the army that lets you play WW2 40k (but with ogres, psychics and those chicken walkers from Star Wars.) They mostly take lots of tanks, sit back and shoot. Probably the shootiest army in the game.

IG are also a very versatile army, they can be used as armor heavy, mechanized veterans, infantry gun line horde, and they can even be used to assault with power blobs.

Maybe they're not a swarm army. I always thought they were. From what I remember of the range, the tzeentch stuff was really bad, too. (flamers and screamers are super-uggo to my eyes). Not to mention Fiends of Slaanesh, Beasts of Nurgle, all the Greater Daemons, and Flesh Hounds.

It's a shame, because they have some BEAUTIFUL models mixed in with the crap. Fateweaver and Heralds on Juggernaughts stand out as extremely nice. If I could field an army of mostly Juggernaught cavalry, I'd consider it.

As for IG, sure they can be played lots of ways, but no IG player I've ever seen, in any edition, has done anything except spam tanks. It makes sense, since if you want to spam tanks, they are the army that lets you do it.

Ok first of all, Daemons are a fantastic army.... unless you wanna go to tournaments. That is not because they are weak, I win most battles with them. Its because you CAN lose by sheer bad luck with them, and in a tournament setting where it's WIn At All Costs, this is unacceptable. In a freadly game, this can be hilarious, or a great story. But since forum people are generally hardcode tournament players Daemons get a lot of hate.

That being said, they are a powerful army, especially against marines, that also play like no other, and are amazing fun. They are also possibly the rarest army next to necrons, and that, coupled with the fact that they play so differently, means that you can easly suprise your opponent. They are also not really a horde army, infact you can easly make a Daemonzilla list which is composed mostly of 5 monstrous creatures and a couple of squads of troops. thats like 30 models for the entire army. Fun.

That being said, they ARE one of the harder armies to play, so they tend to be better as a second army.

From the other choices, Necrons are a no go until they get their next codex, its just a REALLY bad idea to get some now. Tau are great fun, but they ARE a purely shooty army, which also makes them difficult to play.

Generally the people are right, fluff and models SHOULD be your main concern, with gameplay right behind, so first choose what armies you like the models and fluff of, and THEN from those armies choose the one that plays more like what you like. Power is irrelevant, especially at your level. I would not worry about tournament play, when you get to that level, you'll propably have an extra army or two anyways.

The exception is necrons, if you choose them, you'll have to wait for 3 months.

digi laser wrote:

General Seric wrote:

digi laser wrote:Tau, Necron or Chaos Daemons... whoa.

It's a shame about Daemons, because they are a really cool codex. Not competitive, due to the randomness, but fun. When I was looking for a new army, I considered them. What really killed it for me was that a) the models are mostly old, ugly and metal. b) because they're a metal swarm army they cost BANK. So, you're paying top dollar for an army that doesn't look too good, and isn't that competitive.

Daemons a swarm army? There troops are comparable in point costs to Space Marines, I don't know what you mean by a swarm army. The really ugly models are mainly the old Greater Daemons, and some of the Slanesh and Nurgle stuff, the newer plastic stuff is generally good and some of the other metal models.

digi laser wrote:
2- Imperial Guard- if you want to play the "good guys" but not SM, these are for you. If you're at all into WW2 stuff, this is the army that lets you play WW2 40k (but with ogres, psychics and those chicken walkers from Star Wars.) They mostly take lots of tanks, sit back and shoot. Probably the shootiest army in the game.

IG are also a very versatile army, they can be used as armor heavy, mechanized veterans, infantry gun line horde, and they can even be used to assault with power blobs.

Maybe they're not a swarm army. I always thought they were. From what I remember of the range, the tzeentch stuff was really bad, too. (flamers and screamers are super-uggo to my eyes). Not to mention Fiends of Slaanesh, Beasts of Nurgle, all the Greater Daemons, and Flesh Hounds.

It's a shame, because they have some BEAUTIFUL models mixed in with the crap. Fateweaver and Heralds on Juggernaughts stand out as extremely nice. If I could field an army of mostly Juggernaught cavalry, I'd consider it.

As for IG, sure they can be played lots of ways, but no IG player I've ever seen, in any edition, has done anything except spam tanks. It makes sense, since if you want to spam tanks, they are the army that lets you do it.

I personally like the Tzeentch stuff, but I guess it's just a mater of opinion. But I agree all the Slaanesh stuff is hideous. It is a shame that they don't update the greater daemons, I would like to see them redone.

I do know of some people who use a lot of infantry and more artillery than thanks who plays at my FLGS, and I have tried using power blobs (massive blob of standard guardsmen in a combined squad of 30-40 men with a commissar and as many power weapons as possible) against my friend and they were actually quite effective on the charge, they killed about 16 hormogaunts and a Hive Tyrant, mainly through weight of numbers and the power weapons slowly knocking off the Hive Tyrant's wounds.

Cool, so is there any book i could buy or something that has the fluff out of the codexes or should i just check the 40k wiki for the fluff of the races?

The wiki and the Lexicanum is by far your best options, codexes and the 40k rulebook only have fragments.

DrDuckman wrote:The wiki and the Lexicanum is by far your best options, codexes and the 40k rulebook only have fragments.

This is true, sort of. I would still suggest getting the codex. That way you can match the fluff up with the on table rules. Plus I find sifting through all the information on those websites difficult. Whereas reading a ~100 page book is pretty easy.

When I first started I used Tau, and they were a really good introduction into WH40K. Their units are easy to assemble and paint, and give an amazing looking result if you pick a nice colour scheme. Their rules are all fairly simple, so you don't have to worry about complicated units, and they can be rather forgiving - something that Dark Eldar and - to a lesser extent, Imperial Guard - aren't.

However, my best advice would be to ignore most of what you read here and look at everything on Games Workshop's site. Then, pick an army you like the look of and visit the Lexicanum, to see if you like their history and morals. Then, if you still like them, check out this site for tactics and battle reports involving that army, to get a feel for how they play.

Why is everyone telling him to play Dark Eldar? He didn't even list it as a choice?

Anyway, as others have said, the 3 choices you listed are not necessarily newbie friendly, but here is my rundown:

Tau - This was my first army. As of right now, it is horribly broken, there is really only one build you can take if you want to stand a chance in a semi-competitive environment, and even then only a skilled player will see any success with the army. Rumors have them getting a new book late next year, but they are rumors, and not very substantial ones at that.

Necrons - This was my second army (years ago). I sold them about 4 years ago because I got bored. Similar to Tau there is really only one build you can take, there aren't a lot of options in the army, and it gets boring quick. I haven't played them in 4 years, haven't really seen them played in 4 years, I don't know how they hold up against the newer books, but from what I've been lead to believe, they are almost as bad off as the Tau (who are probably the weakest or very close to it presently). Rumors have them getting a new book by the end of this year, or possibly early next year. They are rumors, a good bit more substantial than the Tau rumors, but not substantial enough to say for sure.

Chaos Daemons - I have never collected this army (though I will be getting one from a friend soon-ish), but I have quite a few games with it under my belt. The army can be VERY powerful, to the point that you can make some opponents want to cry with the amount of nastiness you can field. The army can be competitive as well, even in the tournament scene, but due to the inherent random nature of the army, you can very easily lose the entire game to a few bad dice rolls. If you are willing to accept that you are at the mercy of your dice, and that you can and will lose games because of that every now and again, then this army can be a lot of fun to play. The one thing I can tell you is that mono-god lists are pretty difficult to play. I have tried mono-nurgle armies before, and while I often ended games with more than 3/4 of my army still on the table, my opponent often had just as much, if not more, because Nurgle units aren't very killy in general. Likewise I have seen mono-slaanesh played, and while they will bend infantry over like they aren't even there, they are severely lacking in anti tank ability. A balanced army is one that has units from at least 2 gods, preferably 3. The cool thing is that most units are available in plastic now, so its possible to field a mostly plastic army. There are rumors of Chaos SPACE MARINES getting a new book next year nothing truly substantial, but rumors nonetheless. Its unlikely that Daemons will see an update for some time, but they may decide to give 'em some love after CSM get some, who knows.

My advice: go Chaos Daemons. The other two armies are really not very competitive, you'll probably get stomped on most games in fact. Also, both of them are due for an update (hopefully) and theres a chance that your build would be invalidated by the new books, etc. Necrons for example are supposedly getting a complete reworking to their fluff and playstyle, you may not like what you end up with. Your options in that case are A- start the army now and hope the update doesn't change things up too much, etc. and you're still happy with what you have. B - don't start the army until after it gets an update, but you could be waiting for a while.

chaos0xomega wrote:Why is everyone telling him to play Dark Eldar? He didn't even list it as a choice?

Anyway, as others have said, the 3 choices you listed are not necessarily newbie friendly, but here is my rundown:

Tau - This was my first army. As of right now, it is horribly broken, there is really only one build you can take if you want to stand a chance in a semi-competitive environment, and even then only a skilled player will see any success with the army. Rumors have them getting a new book late next year, but they are rumors, and not very substantial ones at that.

Necrons - This was my second army (years ago). I sold them about 4 years ago because I got bored. Similar to Tau there is really only one build you can take, there aren't a lot of options in the army, and it gets boring quick. I haven't played them in 4 years, haven't really seen them played in 4 years, I don't know how they hold up against the newer books, but from what I've been lead to believe, they are almost as bad off as the Tau (who are probably the weakest or very close to it presently). Rumors have them getting a new book by the end of this year, or possibly early next year. They are rumors, a good bit more substantial than the Tau rumors, but not substantial enough to say for sure.

Chaos Daemons - I have never collected this army (though I will be getting one from a friend soon-ish), but I have quite a few games with it under my belt. The army can be VERY powerful, to the point that you can make some opponents want to cry with the amount of nastiness you can field. The army can be competitive as well, even in the tournament scene, but due to the inherent random nature of the army, you can very easily lose the entire game to a few bad dice rolls. If you are willing to accept that you are at the mercy of your dice, and that you can and will lose games because of that every now and again, then this army can be a lot of fun to play. The one thing I can tell you is that mono-god lists are pretty difficult to play. I have tried mono-nurgle armies before, and while I often ended games with more than 3/4 of my army still on the table, my opponent often had just as much, if not more, because Nurgle units aren't very killy in general. Likewise I have seen mono-slaanesh played, and while they will bend infantry over like they aren't even there, they are severely lacking in anti tank ability. A balanced army is one that has units from at least 2 gods, preferably 3. The cool thing is that most units are available in plastic now, so its possible to field a mostly plastic army. There are rumors of Chaos SPACE MARINES getting a new book next year nothing truly substantial, but rumors nonetheless. Its unlikely that Daemons will see an update for some time, but they may decide to give 'em some love after CSM get some, who knows.

My advice: go Chaos Daemons. The other two armies are really not very competitive, you'll probably get stomped on most games in fact. Also, both of them are due for an update (hopefully) and theres a chance that your build would be invalidated by the new books, etc. Necrons for example are supposedly getting a complete reworking to their fluff and playstyle, you may not like what you end up with. Your options in that case are A- start the army now and hope the update doesn't change things up too much, etc. and you're still happy with what you have. B - don't start the army until after it gets an update, but you could be waiting for a while.

hmm so now im really split between just using the chaos daemons and orks(due to what someone said earlier in the thread) thanks for your input everyone and if you have anything else i should take into consideration it would be great.

Remember, when choosing a codex, there be a few immutable rules:
The army must be cool to you.
You must enjoy the army.
Reading the codex brings a smile to your inner child.
The author(s) is not/does not include Matt Ward.

The above rules guarantee long term enjoyment and deep spiritual satisfaction with your army.

You're welcome and thank you and you're welcome again.

You've chosen 2 of the most fun armies in 40k as your starting army. I've played both but only started one. Both armies are extremely flexible and have very high replayability due to the sheer combinations and lists you can make.

I say go for demons. Don't worry about how competitive they are. Truth be told, all armies are pretty much at the same power level except for Books of the Ward (overpowered) and Necrons (underpowered) which will ironically become a book of the Ward soon. :(

terranarc wrote:Remember, when choosing a codex, there be a few immutable rules:
The army must be cool to you.
You must enjoy the army.
Reading the codex brings a smile to your inner child.
The author(s) is not/does not include Matt Ward.

The above rules guarantee long term enjoyment and deep spiritual satisfaction with your army.

You're welcome and thank you and you're welcome again.

You've chosen 2 of the most fun armies in 40k as your starting army. I've played both but only started one. Both armies are extremely flexible and have very high replayability due to the sheer combinations and lists you can make.

I say go for demons. Don't worry about how competitive they are. Truth be told, all armies are pretty much at the same power level except for Books of the Ward (overpowered) and Necrons (underpowered) which will ironically become a book of the Ward soon. :(

this is kinda off topic but whats the deal with this matt ward guy?

Hey that avatar looks familiar... House Corrino?

As for Ward, well, most of the hate he gets is unreasonable. He should be getting a lot more.
40k is a rich scifi universe already. Ward basically comes in, futtbucks every preexisting piece of lore and replaces it with crap that's supposed to appeal to 12 year old. He's basically the avatar of everything that's wrong with GW and the reason why more people are quitting 40k than starting.

Oh and he steals ideas from other people to write his own codex. The latest codex Grey Knights, for example, had many of the rules stolen from an unofficial Ad Mech codex that was made by a GW employee ~6 years ago. The fluff he creates himself for only the Ward can sh*t out stories that bad.

terranarc wrote:Hey that avatar looks familiar... House Corrino?

As for Ward, well, most of the hate he gets is unreasonable. He should be getting a lot more.
40k is a rich scifi universe already. Ward basically comes in, futtbucks every preexisting piece of lore and replaces it with crap that's supposed to appeal to 12 year old. He's basically the avatar of everything that's wrong with GW and the reason why more people are quitting 40k than starting.

Oh and he steals ideas from other people to write his own codex. The latest codex Grey Knights, for example, had many of the rules stolen from an unofficial Ad Mech codex that was made by a GW employee ~6 years ago. The fluff he creates himself for only the Ward can sh*t out stories that bad.

Yep, the reason I was looking at the tau at all tbh was just so I could paint them to look like sardaukar . Also sounds like that ward guy is just trying to make 40k family friendly, which sucks because it already does have the best scifi lore out of anything out there right now.

Your call on Daemons vs. Orks. Both are really good really fun armies to play. Its worth pointing out that generally you will spend a lot more money on Orks, due to them (generally) needing more minis, but Orks are a good bit more flexibile (IMO)due to having more variety available to them. Both offer some really great conversion opportunities, but Daemons are easier to paint, IMO, due to them being daemons, and thus pretty much anything will look good.

Also, its worth noting that with the Daemons you're getting basically 3 armies in one. If you decide you'd like to try out Chaos Space Marines in the future (assuming they retain their current daemonic options), you will already have the basis for a small portion of your army. Additionally if you get creative with your basing, you can use the daemons as a Fantasy army (where they are Matt Ward powerful).

As for Matt Ward, he writes codecies that are OTT and out of touch with the established fluff, and are capable of a couple ridiculously overpowered builds. He isn't necessarily trying to make 40k more family friendly (its quite simply not possible), his fluff is just childish and uninspired. When we say he tries to appeal to 12 year olds, we mean he creates characters that are almost straight out of Dragon Ball Z/ insert video game/comic book/tv show/movie that seems really cool when your young but is really lame when you get old here.

Orks are majestic, and one of the few armies that can pull off a proper horde and still be competitive. Also the only faction in the game that is cool while actually having some humor for a change! If you go mechanized though it will get expensive fast.

A Kan Wall style list (a horde of ork boys with 2 Big Meks 9 Killa Kans for cover) is actually quite cheap though, ESPECIALLY if you are willing to Ebay some troops. This is because people are selling off their orks from Assault on Black Reach set constantly for very low prices, so you can amass a horde really cheaply right now. If you were to go pure horde (100+ orks just charging) I imagine it would actually be really really cheap, but frankly that would also be boring as hell to play.

They are a GREAT army, but they play slowly, which all the models you have to move each turn, so I am glad they are not my main, as it takes a certain enthusiasm to field them. Also, painting 100+ models green can be mind numbing. In that respect, Daemons are much more varied, and they play really quickly. I generally shave 30mins of a game by not having to deploy or move for the first turn or so.

On the plus side, Orks are possibly the best army if you like conversions, they even have a generic looted vehicle "unit" which basically allows you to play other faction's vehicles that got orkyfied. It's a terrible unit, but still, you see where they are going with it.

Orks? Majestic?
Wow that's probably one of two words I would never use to describe orks. The other being graceful.
Hmm... I guess they technically are majestic. I've just never equated majestic with scrap metal dreadnoughts, plates-hammered-together-turned-buggies and 50 foot tall piles of scrap metal that walk around stomping things.

I'll be the first one to say though, just assembling 400 orks is exhausting on the mind and soul. I don't know if I'll ever get around to painting them. Also, it's not that rewarding to play as it consumes too much time and the novelty dies out quickly after deployment.