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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/06 07:28:37
Subject: 1500 Imperial Guard
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Imperial Recruit in Training
Australia
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Redone a previous list. Any criticism and/or advice would be much appreciated!
HQ
Command Squad with medi-pack, standard, vox caster, and Master of Ordnance 130
Troops
Veterans with three melta guns, power weapon, plasma pistol, vox caster and lascannon 145
Veterans with three grenade launchers, vox caster and missile launcher 105
Veterans with three plasma guns, vox caster and lascannon 140
2 Chimeras with dozer blades and storm bolters 75 each = 150
Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank with Knight Commander Pask, sponson plasma cannons and lascannon 255
Leman Russ Battle Tank with sponson heavy bolters and heavy bolter 170
Leman Russ Executioner with sponson heavy bolters and heavy bolter 215
Fast Attack
Vendetta Gunship 130
Armoured Sentinel with autocannon 60
Total = 1500
The squads would be mounted in the Chimeras, with the Melta vets in the Valkyrie. And one question; would giving carapace armor to the melta vets be worth it seeing as they will have to be in close range?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/06 08:54:16
Subject: Re:1500 Imperial Guard
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Dakka Veteran
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You've got a lot of unnecessary upgrades:
-medic
-voxes
-standard
-PW
-PP (at least move it to the plasma squad)
-dozer blades
-storm bolters (definitely lose these)
Your tanks have questionable loadouts. Drop both sets of HB sponsons. I was going to laugh at the pask tank, but it actually looks pretty dangerous.
Your have three completely different veteran squads. I understand you've geared them differently to take on different things and that is a good idea in itself, but on the flipside, your opponent will have a much easier time picking targets when you've done it for him. Give all veteran squads meltaguns and the CCS plasma, unless you don't face much vehicles, then you might get away with some GLs or whatever really.
Get at chimera for the CCS and consider another for the meltaguys to run the vendetta empty.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/06 12:57:03
Subject: Re:1500 Imperial Guard
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Imperial Recruit in Training
Australia
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Ah, well thanks for the advice. Some of those upgrades can be questionable, (I've haven't played a proper game of 40K), so there.
The voxes seemed like a standard thing, and at 5 points I don't really mind. The standard and medic, being honest, looked good for keeping the CCS up.
The PW and PP are there because I'm thinking that because that squad would be in close and taking on heavily armored opponents (elite guys up to tanks), the PW might give the squad a fighting chance in close combat, while the PP might be able to help assist with the melta guns.
Dozer blades are on the transports because I have the impression that they will be moving up and about transporting people, so they were given these in case they did have to traverse terrain in hopes of a better chance at crossing. The stormbolters are there for extra support and an on-the-go attack (they are assault weapons I believe).
For the tanks, I just decided that I needed one that could do alot of damage, one that would be useful against heavy infantry (terminators etc) and one 'general' tank. The heavy bolters are there because there is no 'in between' guns in the army. There are lasguns, which look rather useless, and then there are tank cannons and lascannons, which shouldn't (at least the latter) be wasted on medium infantry. So some heavy bolters to fill the gap.
Last thing is the grenade launchers. They are there as a 'mob killer' or such, and flamers didn't seem like an option seeing how squishy Guardsmen can be.
Hope that might clear up a few things.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/06 16:09:35
Subject: Re:1500 Imperial Guard
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Dakka Veteran
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Yeah we've all been there. Here's some motivation:
You can't give orders to units embarked in transports, so mechanized armies tend to skip voxes. Chimeras blow up of course, but even then you can still give orders without them. 5pts for nothing is still 5pts. You could keep the vox on your CCS since it can give orders to itself, that could come in handy. Standard isn't going to help you out a lot in an army like this. You would use it to anchor a gunline or if you're desperate for an assault CCS. Some people like to take a medic, but usually it's in a straken-led squad that wants to assault, or a plasma ccs to protect against overheat. He's not really necessary if there's no reason to shoot at your squad in the first place.
The plasma pistol isn't that bad, it's just that points stack up quickly. You could certainly end up wishing you had a PP in a squad of meltavets that are going up against some terminators or whatever, but odds are you won't and it costs a tenth of a leman russ. The PW is pretty much crap at s3. Most of the armour saves that are worth ignoring are backed up by t4, so you'll need 5 to wound. It's also at i3 so will basically always strike last. If you want to ignore armour and you're going to strike last anyway, take a PF for just 5 more so you can wound properly. Or leave it at home like most people.
Dozers can be useful, but it depends on how much terrain you play with. Like with orders, it's not like you won't probably pass the test even without a reroll. I suggest you try them out and make a note of how many times per game they make a difference. The storm bolters are defensive weapons, but you can't fire them at cruising speed and if you're going combat speed, you have a multilaser. They're pretty much a waste of points.
Your tanks are fine, you're just putting a bunch of crappy HB sponsons on them. I understand your thinking about them, but the thing about medium infantry is that you're unlikely to actually meet any. If you define medium infantry as t3 4+, you're basically looking at fire warriors, some eldar and carapace guardsmen. There's also the odd scout marine? Another thing about HB sponsons is that it's not as easy as you might think to get LOS with both. More often than not it's just the one that gets to fire.
I'm personally a fan of grenade launchers. Because of their longer range, they are going to typically get off more volleys than a flamer squad, but will do much less damage every time. An upside is that in a HB chimera, that same squad of yours can put out 10 s5-8 shots quite capable of wrecking lighter vehicles. But for antihorde it's conceivable to go with either GL or flamers. A lot of people will say that putting flamers on vets is a "waste of bs4", but it's really not when you have nothing else. A lot of people will say that it's stupid because you should have a HF on every chimera anyway, and they have a point, but if you play a lot of horde armies go for it.
By cutting all that stuff I suggested, you'll save around 170pts. That could get you another vetsquad, a manticore, a basic infantry platoon or plasmas for the CCS plus a few doctrines. So there's some perspective.
Edit: doctrines are also an idea, or harker/bastonne.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/06 16:15:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/07 00:17:06
Subject: 1500 Imperial Guard
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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Almarine has some excellent points you should follow, but I feel I should expand on a few...
Lumbering Behemoth rule on your Russes mean you can move and fire the turret weapon and one other weapon. Your sponsons, even though you buy them in a pair for one price, are each a seperate weapon. You have to fire all of your weapons at a single target. The general feeling is this... if you pay points for things you do not end up using, your wasting the points. If you do not move your Russes, anyone who assaults them gets Auto hits on the rear armor. If you move 6", they have to hit on a 4+. You really want to keep your Russes moving because you can run into alot of things that can Deep Strike/Infiltrate/Scout/Outflank in and still attack, or at least enough to warrent worry.
Unlike Almarine, I hate Grenade Launchers. Str 6 with AP 4 Krak shots take down a single troop a turn unless your dice totally suck. If they have power armor, your GL is a total waste. The idea of using it as a anti-hoard is fine, but the Frag is a Str 3 frag that allows almost all armor saves (AP 6). You have a 50% chance to hurt Guard with that, and they still get their 5+ armor save.... and not alot of things out there are worse off than Guardsmen.
/Only/ two good thing about GLs is that they are assault and have a 36" range. I would rather have a melta or plasma where if I hit something, I kill it. I now also have a real option to all but the heaviest of vehicles (in reguards to the plasma) and a total solution to all vehicles (melta).
IG are a incredibly compact list... You do not have troops that cost 21pts or 28pts or other weird costs where you end up with points you can't use. It is all divisible by 5. 5pts will upgrade that special weapon to a flamer, 5pts more will make it a melta, 5pts more will make it a plasma.
The same goes for Heavy weapons for IG... every team has a target in your mind on what to shoot at when you buy it. A Lascannon is the pinical of long range Guard anti-tank. Str 9, AP 2, long range. If you have a AV 12+ vehicle that is out of melta range, this is your best option. For everything else (AV 12-, infantry, ect), nothing really beats an AC. Str 7, AP 4, good range... /two/ shots. from popping transports to putting damage on a hoard, AC is better than a ML or HB.
You just do not get to shoot alot of AV 10 vehicles in the game that make something like a HB worth it at Str 5, even with those 3 shots. This turns into a strictly anti-infantry weapon and you end up losing alot of versitility.
ML is a Str 8 Krak, but a single shot. And the Frag is Str 4 small marker. Your not going to really shoot at a AV 14 vehicle with a ML so your shooting at the same vehicles a AC would shoot at, but with a lower chance to hit with one shot vs two. The Frag will be lucky to effect more than 3 targets, and maybe only kill 1-2, so your not killing any more than the AC would.
If your not running your Vets in Chimeras or your doing a gunline vet list, I will suggest Sentries over Chimeras. Like Almarine said, Chimeras blow up... but every Guardsman inside takes a wound. Your squad will either die or take enough wounds to make a morale check and break... either way, your squad is probably dead. Sure... your guardsmen are now not going to get Boltered down like dogs, but a single lascannon shot could kill the whole squad. Keep the pros and Cons in mind. The mentality behind Chimeras is that you have enough Chimeras to survive long enough to get close and fire 3 BS 4 Melta shots on a enemy vehicle. If you have 4-6 Chimeras with melta Vets, half of them should live long enough to get in melta range and destroy things. Static Chimeras have pros and Cons as well. But the Multi-Laser on it is great and every attacking Chimera should have a heavy flamer and every camping one should have a Heavy Bolter.
Orders are a cool aspect of Guard and can be alot of fun. I personally think they work best with Platoons vs Vets, but giving 'Bring it Down!' to a Vet Lascannon firing on a Land Raider to make that BS 4 twin linked really gives you now a 75% chance to hit. And remember that the Order works just as well against MCs! If you enjoy Orders, I will strongly suggest Creed and Kell. Kell really works well in a Vet list like this... Orders at 24" using Creed's Leadership, as well as a standard if they are within 12" of your CCS for Morale re-rolls.
Give the CCS Camo Cloaks and a Lascannon and two plasma guns, and with 3 Vets with Sentries, 3 special weapons (plasma since your static) and another lascannon and two ACs and you have an impressive little gunline force that can pour out a ton of shots, hit with most, and really cause some damage. With Creed giving out Orders every turn to his own CCS and the 3 Vets, no vehicle should be safe. Just use youe Russes to kill Infantry to keep them from assaulting the Vets or using flamers on them and table every foe you come across.
Heck, I would even consider ditching the Sentinal and getting a Penal Squad to throw in the Vendetta to make it scoring to cap or contest objectives late game. Maybe even get a 4th Vet squad with Harker to give you a Vet Squad with 2 heavy weapons in it. Go for another HB and keep it strictly anti-infantry. Sentries and Demolisions make this a very hard unit, as well as well rounded.
Good luck, I hope this has given you some food for thought!
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Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/07 01:18:48
Subject: Re:1500 Imperial Guard
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Imperial Recruit in Training
Australia
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Thank you all for the insight. I'll probably test the list out a bit, and make any changes from there. Thanks again!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/07 01:50:48
Subject: Re:1500 Imperial Guard
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Fixture of Dakka
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I hate to get cookie cutter on you, but:
CCS - 165
4 plasma guns
chimera
3 vet sqds - 155 ea.
3 melta
chimera
Vendetta -130
Scout sentinel w AC - 45
LRBT - 255
Pask
HLC
Plasma sponsons
LRBT - 170
HHB
HB sponsons
LR Executioner - 230
HHB
Plasma sponsons
1460 total
I'm just using what you listed with a few changes on a few things.
i like the scout Sentinel over the Armored for the simple reasons of price and outflanking.
if you're opponent ignores an AC running around shooting at rear armor, then all the better for you.
i'd also give some thought to dropping the "plain" LRBT for a pair of hydras. they can be a real help to
you and a pain to your opponent. i'd also drop Pask at this point level.
something like this:
CCS 165
4 plas.
chimera
3 squads of Vets - 465
3 melta
chimera
2 - Demolisher - 410
Plasma sponsons
HHB
2 Hydras - 150
2 Vendetta - 260
Scout sentinel - 45
AC
1495
ps
if you went with 2 LRBTs instead of the Demolishers, you could add a 2nd sentinel.
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"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
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