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Well after deciding to get a 2nd army of Dark Elves to go along with my Empire, I am really considering on running a Dark Elf Spearmen Horde, for a number of reasons. Not only is it dirt cheap to field compared to a number of other horde units out there, you are getting a guy with a high Initiative and WS for only 7 points, and who has hatred every first round of combat barring the hartred every turn when playing against High Elves. 2nd, I have liked the idea of running a phalanx of Spears, because besides the fluff value, I think it would just look awesome on the table-top when fully painted, and finally, they will be backed up with a Cauldron of Blood to help them out depending on who they are fighting, which can make them all that more deadly in CC. I plan to run them as such: (49x) Dark Elf Warriors w/Full Command, Shields, and they will be joined by a lvl 2 Sorceress who will be fielding either the Dark Elf Lore or the Lore of metal. And though a lot of DE players like to field a Corsair horde, they just haven't appealled to me so I decided to try something different for a change, so in you opinion is this a good idea?

Guess no one has ever seen this unit in action then?

It's pretty much just a horde of spearmen with Hatred. High Elves do it better with ASF and the extra rank, anyway.
Most any large unit can work when supported. I'd say go for it.

You consider 7pts a model to be dirt cheap compared to other hordes out there? What other hordes are you referring to? Many other armies toss out cheaper hordes that are nearly as effective, and significantly more effective when point totals are brought into the equation.

There are a few reasons you don't see Spearmen hordes. Dark Elves aren't usually at their best all clumped up. We're expensive and fragile. 7pts a model is not cheap for a horde. You're talking 350 points for 50 S3 T3 one attack 5+ armor guys that will explode once a couple of templates or large amounts of pincushion fire hits them. Toss a couple of high-attack units against it and your steadfast will drop very quickly and then you just get ran over.

If you both like the idea of a giant block of Spearmen and want to put the unit on the table, go for it. 350pts isn't so big an investment that it will cripple the rest of your army, but it still isn't the most optimal way I would build a list.

GK wrote:Well after deciding to get a 2nd army of Dark Elves to go along with my Empire, I am really considering on running a Dark Elf Spearmen Horde, for a number of reasons. Not only is it dirt cheap to field compared to a number of other horde units out there, you are getting a guy with a high Initiative and WS for only 7 points, and who has hatred every first round of combat barring the hartred every turn when playing against High Elves. 2nd, I have liked the idea of running a phalanx of Spears, because besides the fluff value, I think it would just look awesome on the table-top when fully painted, and finally, they will be backed up with a Cauldron of Blood to help them out depending on who they are fighting, which can make them all that more deadly in CC. I plan to run them as such: (49x) Dark Elf Warriors w/Full Command, Shields, and they will be joined by a lvl 2 Sorceress who will be fielding either the Dark Elf Lore or the Lore of metal. And though a lot of DE players like to field a Corsair horde, they just haven't appealled to me so I decided to try something different for a change, so in you opinion is this a good idea?

I run a unit of 60. Its fantastic. Not the most optimal horde but runs very well and as you say looks amazing on the battlefield.

Units of 25 for any Elf spearmen is plenty. They aren't there to kill stuff. They are there to survive or as bunkers for characters like mages.

aerethan wrote:Units of 25 for any Elf spearmen is plenty. They aren't there to kill stuff. They are there to survive or as bunkers for characters like mages.

Thats true as well, hence why I run a small, cheap unit of 19x w/no upgrades w/my Lvl. 4 w/the sacrificial dagger for the extra power dice . But if not the spearmen horde, there was another one I am tempted to try out to see what it can do. The 2nd horde is one that is more expensive, but sounds like a very flexible but effective unit, which is a horde unit of Repeater-Crossbowmen. I was planning on running them as such:

*(39x) Repeater-Crossbowmen:
-w/Full Command, Shields

Granted it is more expensive, however the prospect of being effective in the shooting as well as the CC phase is just awesome, and can be very useful in any stand-and-shoot reaction. And since they are equipped with shields, these guys can also hold there own in CC, and also get a parry save because of it, which in my opinion is worth the extra point. This unit will also be fielded with the lvl. 2, however besides the dispel scroll, I plan to give her the Guiding Eye, and though its a bit expensive for what it does, it can really come in handy in a tight situation. However saying this, with horde units and shooting, does it mean I can fire in 3x ranks while in a horde formation or can I only still fire in 2x ranks, with the rest doing volley fire? Either way, it will be a ton of a shots coming at any unit trying to charge them, and also, it is a very flexible unit.

By hording ranged attacks you limit your targeting options as all of those shots have to go to the same unit.

Dark Elves are just not a horde army.

I'm aware of that mate, but I still think it would look great on the battlefield and its more for fluff then anything. So are you saying that I can use the horde rules and fire my crossbows in 3x ranks or can I only fire in 2x with the others using volley fire?

Actually, there is one unit DE have that pretty much requires running a big horde: Executioners. You're going to want 40ish anyway just to make sure enough survive to swing; the extra rank of attacks from the Horde formation is just the icing on the S6 KB cake!

GK wrote:I'm aware of that mate, but I still think it would look great on the battlefield and its more for fluff then anything. So are you saying that I can use the horde rules and fire my crossbows in 3x ranks or can I only fire in 2x with the others using volley fire?

Asking if things are effective versus taking them anyway because they look cool and fit fluff is a pointless argument.

Just saying, and who knows, it could actually do very well, but I wont know for sure unless I try it out for myself.

Do crossbows have Volley Fire?

Crossbows do, but I'm not too sure about the Repeater Crossbows the Dark Elves have since they are a bit different.

repeaters dont have volley fire, so your paying a whole lot of points for guys that cant shoot. and the extra rank only applies to hand to hand.

the only things i have seen with volley fire is long bows/bows/shortbows.

yes i have thought about running ahorde of spearmen for 6 points each and a sorceress with sac dagger. basically they are a big bunker of power dice for her.

lixulana wrote:repeaters dont have volley fire, so your paying a whole lot of points for guys that cant shoot. and the extra rank only applies to hand to hand.

the only things i have seen with volley fire is long bows/bows/shortbows.

yes i have thought about running ahorde of spearmen for 6 points each and a sorceress with sac dagger. basically they are a big bunker of power dice for her.

You have the right f it mate, just checked w/a veteran DE at my store and thats what he told me, so i guess I can cross out the Crossbow-Horde idea. And as for my Spearmen, I plan to run a smaller unit of 19x without any upgrades for my lvl.4 Sorceress w/the sacrificial dagger, while I use the 50x man Spearmen horde to counter my opponents because in all honestly, every player at my store has at least one horde unit, so its nice to have a unit that can counter there's, and depending on what I finally decide to do, they will be supported by either a unit of 20x BG w/FC or a Hydra.

I always run 3-4 xbow units of 20 no command in most of my armies with characters accompanying them and have great success, 20-40 stg 3 armor piercing shots, hmm works for me. Also run a 25-40 spear unit, depending on pts for game, as a meat shield for a character.

I've had pretty good sucess with RXBs myself, in blocks of 20-30 with shields and full command.

You start the game with them in two ranks, so they put out a truly ridiculous amount of shots... pity they are only S3 AP; they really struggle to lay wounds on T4 targets.

Once your line engages his, you reform into ranks of five and move up to hit the other guy in the flanks. Very few players expect this, because most missile troops blow in close combat. Ours, on the other hand, share a common statline with our spearmen and (I think) corsairs, AND have the parry save to make them even more durable in close combat. And if he has a tooled-out challenge-monkey, the champion on the unit gives me an extra round of safety for my more valuable characters.

I would take the corsairs if you really want a horde. Their cloaks make them last longer trekking up the field, and with the right banner and CoB/spell boosts they are beasts.

IF you do do a spear horde, include the crown of command so you don't lose the hero you are bunkering.