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So Im playing orks and I play usually against my friend and hes using Dark angels.

My army has Warboss with PK, Boss pole and 'eavy armour
Big mek With SAG
And boyz and nobz with Pks and big choppas.

My friend uses one Devastator squad, two 5-7 terminator squads (they have lots of PWs), One whirlwind and Landrider both tanks have Hunterkiller missile and other guns and thats my problem, if he starts he shoots both HK missiles to my big mek or WB... So is there something what can destroy those tanks easily? and something what ingores armoursave ( terminators +2)?

Pks are power weapons and ignore armor saves. Bring lots of those. Are you mainly doing a green tide? Bring like 3 mobs of boyz 30 strong all with nobz with boss poles and PKs, think also about adding 3 rokkits to each mob, sure they are going to miss more then they hit but when they hit they will do some damage. Drop the SAG and pick up a KFF, giving all boys mobs and the war boss attached a 5+ cover save as you move up field, think about giving him a PK as well he won't hit as well as the warboss but will hit as hard as a nob. Add 3 koptas each one in their own unit, add TL rokkits and buzz saws to pop transports and tie them up while you get closer as they can start in scouting 2 koptas could pop the whirlwind easily. That should give you a pretty good start, from there you can go with some Killa Kans for a Kan Wall or Battle Wagons. Lootas are nice too and can lay down a lot of fire. Don't worry about the Land Raider, the Warboss is the only one with a good chance of destroying it, but you can ignore it and focus on the rest of the army if needed.

Firstly a pk is a PF in game turns, its a power weapon that doubles the users STR to a max of 10. Need to make that clear. And yes, PK should be everywhere in your army. Every nob in a boyz mob should have what was said above. Those things each SM for breakfast.

For the terminators, send in big blobs of boyz with PK/BP/Nob leading them. He cant single out the Nobz in the unit, so your boyz will probably kill off 1 or 2 in your charge, and your nob will kill 2 to 4 depending on how lucky you get. Seriously, Boyz are the best anti Terminator we've got and they work great at it.

As for popping vehicles, Lootas are easily the best bet to start off with. They only have enough deffguns to make 4 Lootas per box, but if your creative you can easily make a 5th Loota, and then you have left overs to make some burna boyz later if you want. I usually take 2 units of 5 Lootas, they are just GREAT at smoking transports.


To keep your BigMek and Warboss alive, simply stick them in a unit. That way they wont be singled out during shooting. So your friend can drop shots into those mobs all he wants, the hits wont effect your HQs at all. And while we are on it, you dont HAVE to drop the SAG Mek. Are KFF Meks more effective? Yes, because of the mentioned 5+ cover save it grants to troops and the 4+ it grants to vehicles. That doesnt mean you HAVE to use it though, if you like how that SAG blows up SM then by all means keep using it, youll love it the day you fire it at a LR full of nasties and you roll 2 6's. And while we are talking about the Mek, I usually dont take a PK for him, Ill stick a Burna on if Im adding anything more then a KFF. Because its a power weapon if you dont shoot it, and most times the BigMek will have a chance to use it before dying, where as with a PK, he will go last, and for me anyways, people HATE my BigMeks and like to single them out in CC, so many tmies for me, the PK is just a waste of points.

On the Warboss though, yea, take the PK, its a no brainer. He wont be ID by anything that isnt STR10 (or rules allowing it of course) so chances are good he will stick around long enough to tear some SM in half. The build on your boss depends from person to person, but they pretty much always involve a PK somewhere and an attack squig, simply because its a good deal for an extra PK attack. I normally run my Warboss in Mega Armor/cybork/attack squig, but I have used the eavy armor variant many times. Just remember that if you do use Mega Armor, if you stick him in a unit, they move 2D6 pick the highest because of him being SNP


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops forgot about your Nobs. Can you be a little more specific on how you tool up your Nobz unit? Because you can diversify them and make them REALLY hard to kill, much more so then giving some PK and the rest BigChoppas. Let us know and we can help ya out

Deffcopta rokkits/Buzzsaw are really good, you can run 3 solo for the sniping like it says above... but i really like them against those terminators TW rokkit @ 8Str they dont get a 2+ save, and they got 2 wounds!!!! They are really cheap too ( money wise ) because of AOBR. Keep the SAG!!!! By far the most fun gun in the game!!!

You haven't given us a lot of the lists, but for him to take so many heavy support and elite squads (as well as god knows HQ and troop choices) you must be fielding a LOT of orks.

Lootas in groups on either side of the map. Tanks cant face both groups!

Other than that, I find hitting them the best option. Most have armor 10 on the rear, and PKs are crazy powerful vs that. Its 100% glances (at least), and 80% pen on average. And if its stationary (in order to fire all weapons) you get automatic hits. Thats 4 hits from a nob. 2-4 will pen. Good times.

Personaly I'd swap the SAG for a KFF to help you get up there, but in saying that a SAG could take out a tank or two depending on your rolls.

I have 18 nobz and 4 of them got PK and 2 Big choppa and 12 are from AOB boxes so they have just Choppas and shootas,
Then boyz, I have 45 of 'em I have been running them in 22(+6 nobz) and 23(+7nobz) and Warboss has 5 nobz on his bodyguards.
But that deff koptas with buzz saws, GREAT IDEA! cause my friend always tryes to puts his Deathwing assault squad to closecombat with my choppers, this time I got little suprise for him
And how many times those buzz saw koptas hits? 2? I cant remember or find it in rule book...

Sorry about my bad english.

Am I reading this right? You are adding more than one nob to your boyz nobz? That would not be legal, you can only upgrade exactly one boy to a nobz per mob.
That said, you are fielding way to many nobz. 10 should be the most any game should have, plus squad leaders. You should get a box of nobz, it has many extra weapons, which can easily be put on your AOBR nobz and form an actual strong unit. Your warboss should also go with a unit of boyz, they can use his support much better than nobz.

Do not shoot the SAG at tanks. The SAG has an average roll of 11.5 for penetration(including 2d6 for ordinance) and will even fail to do anything to the vehicle on many of the mishaps. This is somewhere between a single shot of a loota and a rokkit, at much more points than either. The SAG is great at killing anything with an armor save, especially if it's 2+ or 3+, so keep it shooting at those. In order to protect your bigmek, you should put him with either some boyz(bad), gretchin(better) or big gunz(best) so he can't be killed easily at a distance. Note that he can shoot at a different target than the big gunz, as per artillery rules. Kannons would also help you with your tank problem.

To take out the whirlwind lootaz would probably be best, but unless he has some rhinos/razorbacks they aren't that great against anything else in his list, so you might want to skip them. Your best shot would be kanz, warbuggies or the already mentioned koptas. Kanz can even punch the landraider in melee and kill some terminators before dying, buggies and koptas are better at killing regular marines. Your call.
Just ignore the landraider till he gets too close to a PK and then charge it. It isn't worth the effort killing it, it can't kill that many boyz from a distance.

Oh, and you should really get a codex before anything else.

Jidmah wrote:Am I reading this right? You are adding more than one nob to your boyz nobz? That would not be legal, you can only upgrade exactly one boy to a nobz per mob.
That said, you are fielding way to many nobz. 10 should be the most any game should have, plus squad leaders. You should get a box of nobz, it has many extra weapons, which can easily be put on your AOBR nobz and form an actual strong unit. Your warboss should also go with a unit of boyz, they can use his support much better than nobz.

Do not shoot the SAG at tanks. The SAG has an average roll of 11.5 for penetration(including 2d6 for ordinance) and will even fail to do anything to the vehicle on many of the mishaps. This is somewhere between a single shot of a loota and a rokkit, at much more points than either. The SAG is great at killing anything with an armor save, especially if it's 2+ or 3+, so keep it shooting at those. In order to protect your bigmek, you should put him with either some boyz(bad), gretchin(better) or big gunz(best) so he can't be killed easily at a distance. Note that he can shoot at a different target than the big gunz, as per artillery rules. Kannons would also help you with your tank problem.

To take out the whirlwind lootaz would probably be best, but unless he has some rhinos/razorbacks they aren't that great against anything else in his list, so you might want to skip them. Your best shot would be kanz, warbuggies or the already mentioned koptas. Kanz can even punch the landraider in melee and kill some terminators before dying, buggies and koptas are better at killing regular marines. Your call.
Just ignore the landraider till he gets too close to a PK and then charge it. It isn't worth the effort killing it, it can't kill that many boyz from a distance.

Oh, and you should really get a codex before anything else.

jidah ... i didn't realize youcould attach the independent character to artillary... this is just brilliant. thanks. no more gretchin attached to a SAG time for some kannonz attached to them. freeing up 80 points in my 2 SAG list (already has 9 kannonz in the list)

I 2nd Jidmah on what to shoot the SAG at. Never shoot vehicles unless there isnt really anything else. That thing, much like the BoomGun/FlashGits, they are more for blowing up troops with good armor saves.

If you want to take out vehicles then get your pks onto the worky bitz of them. 4 s9(charging) attacts on a stationary vehicle will definetly break it, and if it moved a little its 4+ to hit, wich is also okay. Warbikes work perfectly as pk delivery systems

The problem is you're running your WB and BM unattached to units. If you attach them per the IC rules, then any fire he puts at them, you can allocate to another model in the unit. He's now spent his 10pt HK missile to kill a 6pt boy.

If you like the SAG and want to keep him alive, buy a 10 or 19 man unit of grots. Plenty of bodies willing to die so your SAG can live, objective holders as they are troops, cheap, and a rerollable 8 leadership.

Alternatively, you could trade your SAG for a KFF, which will insure your boys always have a 5+ cover save from shooting.

Well...
1.PK
2.Shokk attack gun
3. rear shot fire wtih rokkits by deffkoptas (thats wat ill do)

It's really fascinating, how just 5 posts below mine someone suggests shooting the SAG at vehicles, again. Do you guys really do that? Do you really consistently kill vehicles with your SAG? It's really a miracle no one suggest zzapguns yet, they usually come up in those posts, too. 3d6 penetration is really bad, much worse than lootaz or rokkits. Just because you can roll a result of 16 does not mean you do, the chance of glancing/penetrating anything is below that of a rokkit, not even taking mishaps into account. Shooting a SAG at a vehicles is a failure of figuring out your target priority.

Deffkoptas is a great anti-tank squad, throw in a couple of PK s to boot!

Jidmah wrote:It's really fascinating, how just 5 posts below mine someone suggests shooting the SAG at vehicles, again. Do you guys really do that? Do you really consistently kill vehicles with your SAG? It's really a miracle no one suggest zzapguns yet, they usually come up in those posts, too. 3d6 penetration is really bad, much worse than lootaz or rokkits. Just because you can roll a result of 16 does not mean you do, the chance of glancing/penetrating anything is below that of a rokkit, not even taking mishaps into account. Shooting a SAG at a vehicles is a failure of figuring out your target priority.

Agreed, but you can only tell people so much about how to use units properly. Ive seen people told NOT to send Boyz at those blood talon dreads that BA have, and yet every now and then, Ill see a thread pop up wondering why all their boyz were butchered. I STILL see people suggesting FlashGits to shoot vehicles. Why? Because they are heavy support. Id imagine its the same reason why people suggest the SAG, because its an Ordinance weapon.

These are the people that stick out and you can tell right away, they have NEVER used said units before. But again, what can ya do?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

deffskulla wrote:Deffkoptas is a great anti-tank squad, throw in a couple of PK s to boot!

Just to clarify, Deffkoptas are excellent anti av10 poppers they are only STR7 on the charge keep in mind. Anything higher and they become quickly useless and more of a here I am, shoot me first unit.

Ok 1) be thankful you arn't fighting guard ( i play guard ) and if you were fighting guard you would not pen there frong armour ............ Bring Tank Busta's or proxi them if you don't have them ....... Kommandos out flanking with stickbomz.............. Stormboyz assualting would work to had a Lemen Russ of mine killed that way

Minopikle16 wrote:I have 18 nobz and 4 of them got PK and 2 Big choppa and 12 are from AOB boxes so they have just Choppas and shootas,
Then boyz, I have 45 of 'em I have been running them in 22(+6 nobz) and 23(+7nobz) and Warboss has 5 nobz on his bodyguards.
But that deff koptas with buzz saws, GREAT IDEA! cause my friend always tryes to puts his Deathwing assault squad to closecombat with my choppers, this time I got little suprise for him
And how many times those buzz saw koptas hits? 2? I cant remember or find it in rule book...

Sorry about my bad english.

The best advice I can give you to help beat your friend is; read your codex and rule book first.

MegaArmouredNorthener wrote:

Minopikle16 wrote:I have 18 nobz and 4 of them got PK and 2 Big choppa and 12 are from AOB boxes so they have just Choppas and shootas,
Then boyz, I have 45 of 'em I have been running them in 22(+6 nobz) and 23(+7nobz) and Warboss has 5 nobz on his bodyguards.
But that deff koptas with buzz saws, GREAT IDEA! cause my friend always tryes to puts his Deathwing assault squad to closecombat with my choppers, this time I got little suprise for him
And how many times those buzz saw koptas hits? 2? I cant remember or find it in rule book...

Sorry about my bad english.

The best advice I can give you to help beat your friend is; read your codex and rule book first.

Kasrkin229 has just dug up a couple of threads from months ago. Thread necromancy is not cool.

Your first post and you wasted it on a thread no one can remember

Welcome to dakka though

Regards,
Fletch

Kasrkin229 wrote:Ok 1) be thankful you arn't fighting guard ( i play guard ) and if you were fighting guard you would not pen there frong armour ............ Bring Tank Busta's or proxi them if you don't have them ....... Kommandos out flanking with stickbomz.............. Stormboyz assualting would work to had a Lemen Russ of mine killed that way

Oh no! , Your poor Warboss and Big Mek they shouldn't be punished like this give them some boys to protect them so they can actually DO their job!

LOOTAS > Tankbustas for tank hunting unless they manage to actually close on their target. Personally for the pts I would rather have something I can control rather than be force to follow you and unable to run at you.

SAG isn't at a useful tool for tank poping like Jidmah says (listen ta him, he's dead killy with dem brains thingy of his! )

as far as my tools for tank cracking i would list them in this order of importance

1. DeffKoptas, either assualt 1 rush or Outflank with TL-rokkits + Buzzsaw to pick on the most worrisome element of the enemy's army in your case i would choose the Whirlwind
2. Lootas, Probably more important than the Deffkopta if used right but i rate the kopta #1 for me because it normally gives me the best advantage if used right for the lootas to do the rest.
3. Nobs in Boyz squad, easiest way to put this is ... kill something if you have nothing better to do after you crashed against their lines like an ocean! You'd be amazed how many people do not move or barely move even when the ork ork descends on them and don't forget you assualt rear armor! most tanks have 10 rear only a few have anything better (Land raider, monolith, leman russ) even then strength 9 on the charge... it should punch through if luck is on your side [leman russ's explode btw]
4. DEFFROLLAS, OMG SO AMAZING IF YOU ARE ABLE TO CONNECT this is our best counter to 14 armor as when you ram with the deff rolla you resolve 1d6 strength 10 hits against the enemy's armor before concluding with your actual ram attack.
5. Dreds & Kans, Simple as strength 10s do the math!
6. Rokkits, This can be from Kan Walls or from Rokkit Buggies either is about the same to use which is spam the heck of our whatever you plan to kill ... this isn't reliable against armor 14. Please understand the higher then armor the less likely rokkits will even matter at that point