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If it's my turn and I have a unit (Unit A) locked in combat with Unit B, and a blast template scatters onto the combat and kills off Unit B:

1. Can I immediately make a consolidate move with Unit A?
2. Can Unit A still shoot?
3. Can Unit A assault again?

I don't think you can consolidate as you technically didn't win the CC they died.
They are not locked in CC so I see no reason why they couldn't shoot, I don't think they would count as moving either as they obviously didn't move in the preceding movement phase.
Yes I see no reason why you couldn't assault. The only criteria is if they are in range and you are currently not locked in an assault.

Sounds right to me.

consolidation pg 40 BGB
It states that at the end of a combat if a unit's opponents are all either destroyed or falling back they may move up to D6 ( not an exact quote)

Line above Consolidation end of Pile-In
" While a unit is locked in Combat"

so therefore yes to consolidation moves
and yes to all the rest

So the big question would be, "How did your opponent's models get killed by a blast marker during the assault phase?"

You consolidate during the assault phase, after the close combat is over, not at any random time that your opponent's models disappear. (Subject to two explicit exceptions.)

solkan wrote:So the big question would be, "How did your opponent's models get killed by a blast marker during the assault phase?"

You consolidate during the assault phase, after the close combat is over, not at any random time that your opponent's models disappear. (Subject to two explicit exceptions.)

Noone said the blast happened in the assault phase

And under consolidation pg40 BGB CONSOLIDATION "At the end of combat, if a unit's opponents are all either destroyed or falling back, so that the victorious unit is no longer locked in combat with any enemy, they may consolidate" (thanks for the pg correction Kirsanth)

unit's engaged in CC are locked in combat

So once Unit B is gone, the combat is over and Unit A is free to Consolidate

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:And under consolidation pg41 BGB CONSOLIDATION "At the end of combat, if a unit's opponents are all either destroyed or falling back, so that the victorious unit is no longer locked in combat with any enemy, they may consolidate"

First off, that is page 40, unless I am TOTALLY mis-reading.

Second: The bolded part seems to disagree with the rest of your statement.
At the end of combat is not just any time engaged models are removed--unless you can find some text I miss.

Editing because I somehow forgot how to spell.

No I cannot, however I can't find anything saying when the end of combat is, however I'm looking and will edit this post accordingly if needed.

Thanks for the pg clarification

Consolidation happens in the assault phase, specifically, at the end of it if the enemy unit is destroyed. The enemy unit in the OP was destroyed in the shooting phase, therefore, the unit in question cannot consolidate but can run/shoot and assault as normal.

I think that what you'll find is that "At the end of the combat" refers to the close combat in the assault phase. The one that the unit would be ineligible to fight, since it no longer has an opponent (and not locked in combat).

I for, one, would be willing to forgo the rules as written, and allow your unit to consolidate at some point in the assault phase after assault declarations if you wanted to count as locked in combat until then.

Otherwise, the unit's opponent disappeared, meaning that it is no longer locked in combat. No consolidation since the disappearance did not happen as a result of the rules on page 40. But the unit can shoot and assault as normal.

I agree with you solkan

However I'm still trying to look at it from both perspectives.

"At the end of combat"
Unit A is in combat until unit B is destroyed, or fleeing eh?

That's how I can interpret it at least, and without a clear guidline RAW I'm unsure which to go with.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:I agree with you solkan

However I'm still trying to look at it from both perspectives.

"At the end of combat"
Unit A is in combat until unit B is destroyed, or fleeing eh?

That's how I can interpret it at least, and without a clear guidline RAW I'm unsure which to go with.

As I read it, the implication of the first whole sentance under the consolidation heading (pg.40) is that a unit makes a consolidation move when it wins the combat, not simply having its enemy no longer there. However it is not perfectly clear, assumingly because that is typically the only way for a combat to end. Unfortunately there is also no steadfast answer based on other instances that end a combat without eliminating one side. Hit and Run USR grants a consolidation move, however a Wierdboys psychic power "'Ere We Go!" will deep strike a unit out of combat, specifically stating that "enemy models stay in place" should it occur.

My interpretation is that a unit makes a consolidation move at the end of the assault phase after winning a combat, but it very well may be the intention that a unit makes a consolidation under the circumstance in the OP.

blacksails wrote:Consolidation happens in the assault phase, specifically, at the end of it if the enemy unit is destroyed. The enemy unit in the OP was destroyed in the shooting phase, therefore, the unit in question cannot consolidate but can run/shoot and assault as normal.

Actually nowhere under the consolidation heading does it state that consolidation moves are restricted to the assault phase. Again, I feel the implication and intention is for consolidation to occur when a unit wins combat and either destroys its foe or forces it to fall back. The exact wording in the BRB neither permits nor denys a consolidation move in the circumstance in the OP, it simply states 'at the end of combat'.

ork_smash wrote:
Actually nowhere under the consolidation heading does it state that consolidation moves are restricted to the assault phase. Again, I feel the implication and intention is for consolidation to occur when a unit wins combat and either destroys its foe or forces it to fall back. The exact wording in the BRB neither permits nor denys a consolidation move in the circumstance in the OP, it simply states 'at the end of combat'.

Well you are right in that the 'Consolidation' heading does not say its restricted to the assault phase. It does however, belong under the greater 'Assault Phase' heading on p.33, which leads me to think it should be restricted to the assault phase.

There's also a blurb about units in CC not being able to shoot, and what happens to units when theyre hit with Templates Etc in CC.

Blacksails wrote:

Well you are right in that the 'Consolidation' heading does not say its restricted to the assault phase. It does however, belong under the greater 'Assault Phase' heading on p.33, which leads me to think it should be restricted to the assault phase.

You are correct, and I even agree with your line of thinking, and would play as such if it came up in a friendly game. However I am looking at both sides of the discussion, and many people have a problem with playing by what they think the rules are trying to tell us, and this is one of those situations that is not strictly clear.

It is generally understood that the ruleset is permissive, and the rules do allow us a consolidation 'at the end of combat', it does not specify if that end has to be reached by one group killing the other, or if that end can be reached by errant firing and "lucky" scattering and wounding on ones behalf.

If youre not in combat at the start of the assault phase, then you dont get to consolidate.

nosferatu1001 wrote:If youre not in combat at the start of the assault phase, then you dont get to consolidate.

But mid-way through shooting Phase?

A consolidate makes sense to me. Likely, from the fluff on BRB pg. 40, the

sudden victory may leave the warriors...flat-footed and dumbfounded.

Bearing in mind that the reason a unit cannot do anything during the rest of the turn, like go to ground or shoot is because they are "locked in combat," it seems perfectly logical that the consolidate can be made after the fight ends - no matter when it ends.

Why are you stopping them from doing anything?

They are not locked in combat, thus they can run /shoot just fine, and even launch an assault.

you ONLY consolidate in the assault phase, and only at the end. Thats it.

If the opposing unit did not die through CC, no consolidation. You are, however, free to act normally at the start your next phase as they are no longer locked in CC.

Homer

It doesnt say anything about consolidating in the assault phase, only at the end of the combat

...in the assault phase, where the consolidation rules are written.

You are free to act normally from that point on, so you can shoot, run or even assault.

As it is referenced on Pg 33, Consolidation should be viewed as a sub-phase of the Assault phase, just as picking your Assaults, doing the Assault Move, Piling In, etc.

If a Blast in the shooting phase ended the Assault before the Assault phase, the unit does not get to Consolidate because it is not the Assault phase yet.

Nor does the unit get to Consolidate at the end of the Assault phase, because the unit didn't start the Assault Phase in CC.

Essentially the Close Combat ends prematurely.

The alternative could result in an event where the unit makes a consolidation move in the shooting phase, then assaults in the assault phase, wins THAT assault, and gets to make a 2nd Consolidation move. That seems counter-intuitive and I don't think the rules allow for it.

I agree however, that a unit "freed" from close combat in this way could shoot normally during the shooting phase and assault another unit in the assault phase normally.

Actually had this come up in a home game we decided the victorious unit (or units in my case) takes a leadership test to represent the confusion or terror of there opponents disappearing in a cloud of blood and fire or some equally brutal manner. If successful the unit could shoot OR consolidate but not both. We disallowed running.

Thats just how we played it though.

It can also be viewed as when no models are left base to base in the Close combat that combat is over and consolidations may be made

actually lemme look at the trygon burrowing rules real quick, these would help

Actually no help from the FaQ
however from the Mawloc (not Trygon) my bad
if it pushed A and B out of BtB they don't consolidate, however I agree it's diferent but it's good enough of a comparison for me