Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As the topic states: many fluff lovers are constantly lamenting the stagnation of the story, seeing as we are stuck at 999.M41. The question I pose, is why did GW set it up this way? If they knew that they wouldn't go into M42, and sure the reasons are decent for not wanting to do that, why did they get so close? They could have started us back at like 500.M41 and in the 30 or so years since the game has existed, maybe we could be at 750.M41 now, with still plenty of time left.

Does anyone have any ideas or even factual evidence as to why they let it creep up so close? Did they intend it to be this way and then go back fleshing out the background via BL and the HH stuff? How are they going to keep adding new things to the armies? The Imperium can only discover so many STCs in the last few days of M41, Nids need time to evolve, etc...

Please tell me your thoughts on this subject.

They did it because the background is supposed to be a setting, not a constantly evolving story.

They've advanced the story somewhat over the years to explain advances and additions to the game, but they're more focused now on fleshing out the 10000 years of backstory than in pushing onwards.

They can go into M42 and it is still 40k. Some might argue that it's 42k, but by the same logic current 40k is really 41k. In the end most people will just be happy for more fluff, a few others will be irked, and hitch hiker's guide fans can nerd out on the #42.

schadenfreude wrote:They can go into M42 and it is still 40k. Some might argue that it's 42k, but by the same logic current 40k is really 41k.

No. Just like the years 20** make up the 21st century, the years 40,*** make up the 41st Millenium.

They did it because the background is supposed to be a setting, not a constantly evolving story.

They've advanced the story somewhat over the years to explain advances and additions to the game, but they're more focused now on fleshing out the 10000 years of backstory than in pushing onwards.

I get that, but doesn't some source put it at Dec 25th, 40,999? I'm not saying they need to advance the story at all, but the way it is now, even one little thing can't happen without taking it over to the next millenium. I guess I just think they should have left some breathing room.

Why GW did that? Apocalyptic hype, it's as easy as that. It's a crowd catcher, just like many other aspects of the setting.

schadenfreude wrote:They can go into M42 and it is still 40k.

Quite right. People who are that pedantic that they would argue that it'd not be "40k" anymore seem to miss the point that the label reads "Warhammer 40.000" and we do not play in that year either.

I think 6th edition with it's rumored change of focus from the empire to chaos might end up blowing past the year 41,000, but not by much.

schadenfreude wrote:I think 6th edition with it's rumored change of focus from the empire to chaos might end up blowing past the year 41,000, but not by much.

Poppycock. The Imperium is GW's moneymaker - how could they sell 40k if the focus shifted to chaos? Imagine:

Redshirt: "Yes, ma'am. Not only is the brand new, super-awesome 6th edition starter fantastically awesome (at a mere $130, of course), but it focuses on the forces of Chaos!"

Mum: "Chaos?"

Redshirt, drooling: "Yes, ma'am, Chaos! A bunch of degenerate superhumans turned to worshipping dark gods, mutants and heretics performing dark rituals with children and virgins (although the two aren't always mutually inclusive), and, of course, daemons! Daemons of fate, disease, carnage, sex..."

At which point, there is a bit of a tiff. Quite a few days later, the neighborhood church has set up a vigil outside the store, and several priests begin intoning prayers while brandishing religious relics and holy water.

No, no. GW will be sticking with the Imperium as their focus, and won't be moving past the 41st millenium. Why would they, when they still have 39,000-odd years to catch up on.

My understanding is that GW intended to move the storyline forward following the eye of terror campaign, but after the completion of the campaign, and the resulting impact on the storyline, they realized that it would really not be possible to do so without seeing everything come to an end.

GW likes having the Imperium beset on all sides by enemies and the atmosphere of impending doom it brings, but thats just it... its impending doom. That's all it will ever be. If the impending doom became ACTUAL doom, GW wouldn't have much of a setting to sell, and about half the armies in the game would no longer exist.

infinite_array wrote:No, no. GW will be sticking with the Space Marines as their focus

Fixed that for you.

lledwey wrote:I get that, but doesn't some source put it at Dec 25th, 40,999?

Which 'it' are you referring to?

Yes, certain fluff references are set at the very close of the 41st milenium, and that is commonly seen as the 'current' time in 40K. But the fluff actually covers a period from the Heresy right through to that point, with some Black Library books actually set further on, in the 42nd Milenium.

That's the point... The background sets the stage, but your games are theoretically taking place at any point after the Heresy, not just at the 'current' time. After all, by the close of the 41st milenium, at least half of the game's pantheon of Special Characters are dead... some quite a long time ago.

We are already in 42'nd millennial according to Lexicanum:

"127.M42 - In Blackest Night: The Millennial Wars Appraised by Ayjaepi Clothier is published. It is later used by Amberley Vail as an extract within the Cain Archive."

As long it's still 4x(40k, 41k, 42k, 43k), it's still 40k, I guess >.>

I believe the name, Warhammer 40,000, was originally supposed to be just 40,000 years from the present date. So, the current date in the setting was 41,985 ( 40,000 + 1985 ) or whatever the year it first came out.

GW of course fleshed the setting out a bit more since then.

Brother Coa wrote:We are already in 42'nd millennial according to Lexicanum:

"127.M42 - In Blackest Night: The Millennial Wars Appraised by Ayjaepi Clothier is published. It is later used by Amberley Vail as an extract within the Cain Archive."

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M42

Aside from Medusa V (which is an incorrect date), none of those things have happened yet. They are part of the Ciaphas Cain series, and presented to the reader as something that will happen in the future. The date is still M41, we're just given insight into a few relatively unimportant events from M42. The alternative perspective is that the date is M42 and that Ciaphas Cain is retelling stories of his past, which are set in M41. Either way, we're still pretty much stuck in M41.

Not to mention that GW doesn't really care what some BL author comes up with. There may well come more novels set at later dates, but in the end, what matters is the guidelines presented by the studio material - and those pretty much end "5 minutes for midnight".

Soooo much potential. :(

It was my understanding that Gw had originally started the timeline as being fluid with our own, just 40k years in future as stated by another user here.

It was also hinted that they'd originally planned to have the third Necron god awaken at the start of the 42nd millennium which would had been the year 2000 for us. But that got scrapped; but you know with how close to 2012 Necron dex gets released I wonder if they don't play that angle for the rise of the Necrons.

Dracheous wrote:It was my understanding that Gw had originally started the timeline as being fluid with our own, just 40k years in future as stated by another user here.

It was also hinted that they'd originally planned to have the third Necron god awaken at the start of the 42nd millennium which would had been the year 2000 for us. But that got scrapped; but you know with how close to 2012 Necron dex gets released I wonder if they don't play that angle for the rise of the Necrons.

Supposedly all the fluff related to the C'tan in the new book will be changed entirely, and there are now more than 4 of them remaining...

They had to choose a date originally to be set in the future, they chose the 41st millennium. Since the game has been around the story has been ever-evolving as new races/mythology/stories are built upon this massive universe so naturally the timeline is expanded more and more.

Eventually GW will have to just move the current happenings of 40k into early M42. It won't be that big a deal, and will probably still keep the name Warhammer 40,000 due to common usage. When you're talking about a story where stuff happens over Millennia, 999.M41 vs 010.M42 isn't going to make much of a difference.

Harriticus wrote:They had to choose a date originally to be set in the future, they chose the 41st millennium. Since the game has been around the story has been ever-evolving as new races/mythology/stories are built upon this massive universe so naturally the timeline is expanded more and more.

Eventually GW will have to just move the current happenings of 40k into early M42. It won't be that big a deal, and will probably still keep the name Warhammer 40,000 due to common usage. When you're talking about a story where stuff happens over Millennia, 999.M41 vs 010.M42 isn't going to make much of a difference.

Considering that half (more that that actually, its the majority really) of the events in the game timeline take place BEFORE M41/the year 40,000, the argument regarding the name limiting the timeline is garbage.

The thing about it is, I dont see them fleshing out the past as the best way to go about it. I would rather them leave the Heresy all mysterious and unknown and tell us about what is happening now.

Everyone is saying that the fluff is just the setting, which is fine and I agree. The problem is that they are making 10000 years ago seem like a much more interesting setting by giving us all of these juicy details about the period. For proof see the huge influx of pre-heresy armies that have cropped up sice the book series began.

Maybe that isnt such a bad thing (other than pushing people to go to other companies for third party preheresy bits), but I know that if they released some new campaign detailing some big conflict going on in the present, people would get excited and buy new armies and models and books and such.

Basically what I am trying to say is that the way they are going, the setting is becoming stale. Its like, hey heres all this awesome stuff that happened, characters you love, intricate plot twists with betrayal and courage and epic battles... Now you get to join in, 10000 years later, where nothing much at all is going on.

It also bothers me that they are doing a lot of retconning. Take the GK book, it changed a few key bits of fluff to make it fit with the current storyline. That just makes things feel patched together, whereas the Heresy looks lile a beautiful welcoming backdrop.

Damn... I may have just convinced myself to start a preheresy army.

To be fair, GW has been retconning everything. Hell half the HH books ARE retcons in and of themselves. The series just flows better because its the only aspect of the lore that is being cohesively planned and thought out so that everything fits (due to the fact that the series is being fleshed out by various authors).

The reason why M41 is seeming stale right now is because most of GW's best authors have been signed onto the HH series, largely at the expense of their own writing set in M41 or what have you. Really its mostly the 'second tier' BL writers that are putting out non-HH books atm.

Warhammer 40K can go well into the 45th.

The name is not a reflection of the series, while it may of started out that way, it has become a brand.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see the setting advance down the road in both TT and BL. The only people who would protest it are longtime fans who don't want to see the setting fethed with. They are of zero importance though, in the world of making money fans are thought of last.

lledwey wrote:The thing about it is, I dont see them fleshing out the past as the best way to go about it. I would rather them leave the Heresy all mysterious and unknown and tell us about what is happening now.

It's not just the Heresy that they're looking to flesh out, though. And again, what I've been trying to point out is that our games aren't intended to all be taking place in the 'current' time.

If you use Eldrad in your army, your game is not taking place in the current time. Likewise if you use Chaplain Xavier. 'Currently' they're both dead. There are plenty of other examples of this, but those two were the first two off the top of my head.

There are 10000 years in between the Heresy and the 'current' day, and a lot happened in that time. And a lot of it was big. 13 Black Crusades. 3 wars for Armageddon. The Badab War. Half a dozen Tyranid Hive Fleets. These didn't all happen in the last 3 days of the 41st milenium... and there are no doubt plenty more of these sorts of battle still to be revealed.

The game is only 'stagnant' if you choose to focus on that one little tiny part of the timeline.

As innumerable others have said in innumerable other threads, the 41st millennium is a setting for a game of fighting with toy solders, not the opening chapter of a continuing saga. Short of actually playing out the "end times" there's very, very little that could be added to the game's already rich and atmospheric background by sticking another few centuries on the clock, and ten millennia of Imperial history is ample time in which to set stories and campaigns.

Im pretty sure they will go one to 42k and further but its gonna be a while. Like more then 20 years. Because the HH series should finally finnish that all our answers will be unlocked. Then they will continue on to the futuer.

Though I think by then when I will be an adult I will quit this game. (techinically I already did)
Im just for the books (really love them)

The wispers in the void indicate that, if anything, GW will release a Great Crusade/Horus Heresy expansion rather then advance the timeline.

They have a lot of fluff to fill in though up to 41.999, the earliest date the fluff starts is what, 8000 BC?

We all like speculating, dont we?

thenoobbomb wrote:We all like speculating, dont we?

I certainly do!

Anyway, I always went with the thought that you can do what you like with your own personal army's setting. I can quite easily say my force is from the year 43,572 and write a whole host of info that tells great tales about the goings on and why my army is humanities last line of defense blah blah blah.

And if anyone doesnt like it, I'll say they offended my captain and made him angry.

And nobody wants to make a space marine captain angry!