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After a bit of pondering, we decided on wolves and guard for the first draft, although Eldar are also an option, here are the lists

Space Wolves

Rune Priest: Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning, Jaws

Terminator Wolf Guard with wolf claw, combi-plasma

10 Grey Hunters: 2 plasma guns, mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
Wolf Guard with thunder hammer, bolter


10 Grey Hunters: 2 plasma guns, mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
Wolf Guard with Wolf Claw, combi-melta

599

I Like the idea of foot wolves, even though I know its not strictly the best use of points but I also figured that plenty of opposing teams will be packing in anti-transport firepower, so a rhino or 2 probably wouldn't last long anyway...
As the melta squad will ideally be going after tanks, although given the fact they're on foot it will more be a case of letting them come to me, perhaps it would be a better idea to have a thunderhammer, combi-melta wolf guard with them and a wolf claw one with the plasma squad?


Imperial Guard

Command Squad: Lascannon

Marbo

Platoon:
Command Section: 2 flamers, Chimera
Sqaud 1: Grenade launcher, Autocannon
Sqaud 2: Grenade launcher, Mortar
Autocannon Fire Support Sqaud

Leman Russ: Sponson Heavy Bolters

600

we were also thinking of taking veterans instead of a platoon but in the end favoured the extra bodies, ability to take the autocannon squad and also to restrict kill points by forming a combined platoon


The plan is to play reasonably defensively: occupy the mid--table with 20+ space wolves so that anything trying to get at the guard will have to run the gauntlet. the lone wolf guard with hang out with the guard as a surprise counterattack unit to help deal with outflankers/ deepstrikers that sort of thing. the chimera needs to be played defensively as we have to keep it alive to aid objective grabbing, but deoending on the amount of firepower the enemy has, it can either support the grey hunters or serve a similar role to the wolf guard terminator, defending the firebase with drive by flamings

You HAVE to use Eldar bro. The abilities of the Farseers combined with Space Marines is an orgasm. Not to mention they give you the mobility you need.

IMO IG are terrible in small points games.

When this was going to be a 1,500 point combined tournament, we had originally gone for Guard and Eldar- Doom and lots of guard shooting seemed a good combo and you can'y say no to runes of warding but at 600 points its hard to fit much into the Eldar list, especially if you want to go mechanised (as I feel you'd have to really)- you could probably squeeze in a Farseer, Squad of fire Dragons in a serpent and squad of Avengers in a serpent but not much else. Oh and tournament rules state you have to take a troops and hq choice for each 600 point force...

In the couple of practise games we played, we found that the guard had perfectly decent firepower- we were able to gun down a DoA blood angels force with the sanguinor without too much difficulty (and that was after losing the russ in the second turn... Marbo is damn handy in nailing a scary unit/ taking out a tank from the rear, too.

I think given that we've already started testing this list, that were fairly set on Guard and Wolves, 'sides I took Eldar to the last tournament I went too so I fancy a change, its just a question of tinkering with the lists

There's going to be some broken lists there and this list needs to be tweaked for it to work. IG list only has 1 troop choice, so assuming you are running a combined FOC.

For IG I'd drop Marbo, the single chimera and the Russ.

Go for a 30 man blob squad, add commissar and pwer weapons. CCS go melta and PCS flamers.

Add at least 1 if not 2 heavey weapon squads armed with autocannons.

This list is all shooty and no CC, so for Wolves I would take Logan Grimnar and a unit of terminator armour wolf guard, as they count as troops. Send them in aggressively and maybe have 1-2 lone wolfs to cover the IG squads. An army with no mech can really mess with your opponent if they've taken loads of melta and high STR shooring.

ruminator wrote:There's going to be some broken lists there and this list needs to be tweaked for it to work. IG list only has 1 troop choice, so assuming you are running a combined FOC.

For IG I'd drop Marbo, the single chimera and the Russ.

Go for a 30 man blob squad, add commissar and pwer weapons. CCS go melta and PCS flamers.

Add at least 1 if not 2 heavey weapon squads armed with autocannons.

This list is all shooty and no CC, so for Wolves I would take Logan Grimnar and a unit of terminator armour wolf guard, as they count as troops. Send them in aggressively and maybe have 1-2 lone wolfs to cover the IG squads. An army with no mech can really mess with your opponent if they've taken loads of melta and high STR shooring.

Yeah FOC for each 600 pt list is 1 HQ, 1-3 Troops, then 0-1 for Fast, Elite and Heavy

I don't really see the point of going for a tooled up power weapons/ commissar combined platoon if your aim is to make the Guard all shooty and for the Space wolves to be entirely cc,

Also Logan Grimnar? in 600 points? really? thats almost half the army in one model. With the one unit of terminator wolf guard I'd be able to take that makes just 2 expensive scoring units in the army and the blob is going to be fairly static as I'd need it shooting.

To be honest I really think I prefer the general shape of the build I proposed- Grey hunters just seem to cover so many bases: anti-infantry firepower, scoring, cc potential, decent number of bodies, AT if you give them meltas. Whilst the WG terminators seem to be asking for a demolisher/ vindicator round- they strike me as a eggs in one basket approach which I tend to try to avoid....

By way of example, if I were facing someone who had taken the grimnar force, that would just provide me with the perfect target for marbo to frag

I would drop the HB sponsons on the Russ to get your squads properly kitted out. I would also drop the Chimera and now you hav 75pts to upgrade the GLs and the Morter, as well as give the CCS camo cloaks and two plasma guns. If I do my figuring right, you could even get two more flamers for the PCS...

This would give you 5 ACs, Lascannon, 2 Melta guns, 2 Plasma guns and 4 Flamers. Your CCS can still give out two Orders a turn, so keep that AC HWS within 12".

I think I would actually avoid blobing the two PISs due to the lack of a Commissar... you just do not have the points unless you sack the Russ.

If you did sack the Russ, I would consider Creed and Kell, since you can't get a Lord Commissar.

Hope this gives you some food for thought... good luck!

BlkTom wrote:I would drop the HB sponsons on the Russ to get your squads properly kitted out. I would also drop the Chimera and now you hav 75pts to upgrade the GLs and the Morter, as well as give the CCS camo cloaks and two plasma guns. If I do my figuring right, you could even get two more flamers for the PCS...

This would give you 5 ACs, Lascannon, 2 Melta guns, 2 Plasma guns and 4 Flamers. Your CCS can still give out two Orders a turn, so keep that AC HWS within 12".

I think I would actually avoid blobing the two PISs due to the lack of a Commissar... you just do not have the points unless you sack the Russ.

If you did sack the Russ, I would consider Creed and Kell, since you can't get a Lord Commissar.

Hope this gives you some food for thought... good luck!

Dropping the sponsons is indeed tempting but its really a WYSIWIG issue- my brother (team partner) definitely thinks we shouldn't really use the 'its got sponsons but they're out of ammo' line! And I reckon the Russ itself is pretty much a cornerstone of this list, I think we'd really struggle against power armour in numbers otherwise and its just a damn good all rounder really- good for whomping any nasties like nobs, tyranid warriors, honour gaurd/ vanguard etc

Similarly the chimera, whilst I realise that it looks vulnerable, it is, I feel, necessary given our lack of mobility. Even if we have to keep it hidden for the first 3 or so turns I still think its worthwhile as an objective grabber in the later stages of the game. In an earlier version of the guard list, we'd taken a valkyrie instead before realising that it was a far bigger and more expensive, and hence more attractive, target...

Can't see the point of Creed and Kell in large part for the same reasons as I don't like Grimnar here: its a huge points sink and all those points means there won't be much guard army left to be able to take advantage of their abilities

As for the platoon in our list, I agree most of the time it will function as separate squads, we'd only combine to restrict kill points in annihilation really.

Practise game 2 update:

We tested this against a shooty tau/IG force- platoon, russ, vendetta, SWS with demo charge, crisis commander and 2 fireknife suits, 2 fire warror squads and a hammerhead.

Partly due to benificial cover, we were able to get the grey hunters into the centre of the board covering 2 objectives and although they never got into combat and 1 pack was wiped out in then end, they served the purpose of keeping the enemy at bay- they didn't dare come within 12" and the guard got off relatively lightly- holding an objective in the deployment zone and with one squad moving forward to claim a no-mans land one when we started to run low on wolves!

Marbo again showed how useful he is destroying 2 crisis suits and almost getting the commander too but for a 1 to wound and then soaking up a decent amount of retaliatory fire power that would otherwise have been going into the scoring grey hunters (you know you're in a good position when you can place him in cover to demo charge something.

So yeah another good showing, just one rules question came up- does jaws of the world wolf affect jetpack infantry (and jumpack for that matter) I know it stupidly does affect jetbikes because they're a sub-category of bikes so is the same true of jump/jet packs. Logically it makes a lot more sense for them to be affected because they're described as taking powered leaps before landing whilst jetbikes hover all the time but I guess logic means little where gw rules are concerned.

just a hopeful bump, list is submitted now so its too late for changes but I'ddefinitely appreciate advice on how bes to use this list- things like objective placement and how to deal with heavy armour- land raiders and the like- partly due to terrible luck I lost badly when playing against a list with land raider, bjorn and a venerable dreadnought...