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When playing night fight if you roll the distance to see if 1 model can see the enemy can the entire unit see the enemy or just that 1 model?

A unit of 3 obliterators see an enemy transport and two see it obscured do you give those 2 shots covet saves or does the vehicle get cover from all three?

Tomb King wrote:When playing night fight if you roll the distance to see if 1 model can see the enemy can the entire unit see the enemy or just that 1 model?

A unit of 3 obliterators see an enemy transport and two see it obscured do you give those 2 shots covet saves or does the vehicle get cover from all three?

1)The spotting distance rolled is for the unit as a whole. However, you still have to measure per model to confirm or deny if every model can 'see' the targetted unit.

2) the target would get cover saves from all fired, because it is obscured to the view of the majority of firing models.

ork_smash wrote:

Tomb King wrote:When playing night fight if you roll the distance to see if 1 model can see the enemy can the entire unit see the enemy or just that 1 model?

A unit of 3 obliterators see an enemy transport and two see it obscured do you give those 2 shots covet saves or does the vehicle get cover from all three?

1)The spotting distance rolled is for the unit as a whole. However, you still have to measure per model to confirm or deny if every model can 'see' the targetted unit.

2) the target would get cover saves from all fired, because it is obscured to the view of the majority of firing models.

1) so it is possible to have only 1 model in a unit be able to see the enemy. Can I get a reference for this one?

2) This is what it read in the rules but a lot of people play that you get cover for 2 and the other gets no cover.

What if question: What if there is only 2 obliterators and one is shooting obscured and the other has a clear shot. Would both give cover or both not give cover. Its not a majority so having only 2 would benefit the shooting unit would it not?

if 1/2 are obscured than you get cover. IE; I have a squadron of 2x LRBT I pop smoke on one of them. Then unit is now 1/2 obscured granting cover

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:if 1/2 are obscured than you get cover. IE; I have a squadron of 2x LRBT I pop smoke on one of them. Then unit is now 1/2 obscured granting cover

As the rule reads: The majority of firing models. 50% is enough for cover per vehicle rules but not a majority of firing models. Therefore it should not get cover. The 50% obscured is measured per model. Than it falls to the second tier to see if the unit grants the vehicle cover as a whole.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Am I right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nvm 50% is considered a majority

Tomb King wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:if 1/2 are obscured than you get cover. IE; I have a squadron of 2x LRBT I pop smoke on one of them. Then unit is now 1/2 obscured granting cover

As the rule reads: The majority of firing models. 50% is enough for cover per vehicle rules but not a majority of firing models. Therefore it should not get cover. The 50% obscured is measured per model. Than it falls to the second tier to see if the unit grants the vehicle cover as a whole.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Am I right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nvm 50% is considered a majority

As TK says, the smoke on one vehicle does not grant cover for both since it's measured from the firing models. However;

Don't know if this has been brought up before, but it was brought to my attention a while ago. The rule states firing model, not majority of the unit. As such, with a unit of 3 oblits where 1 has a clear shot and 2 have either obscured shots or no LOS at all, you can declare that only the Oblit with the non-obscured view shoots and thus the vehicle in question does NOT get a cover save (since the majority of the firing models have a clear LOS).

This has become kind of annoying, since one of my gamer buddies place a Devastator squad behind a rock, has two missile launchers standing out to the sides and only fires with them. Those two always have LOS and I get no cover save, while more than 50% of that unit is behind cover so get cover save from my shots....

ork_smash wrote:
1)The spotting distance rolled is for the unit as a whole. However, you still have to measure per model to confirm or deny if every model can 'see' the targetted unit.

The rules say nothing of the sort!

You check spotting range between the two units and if the target is within range then the firing unit fires as normal. There is absolutely no mention of checking spotting distance for each model in the firing unit and denying those who are out of range.

As Yak says - for 1) if you measure between the units and find you are within your rolled distance, EVERY model in the unit is eligible to fire. AT THAT POINT you determine if the models are in range of the unit, as normal.

2) The whole unit gets cover because 2 of the 3 firing models are obscured, you do not give cover from some wqeapons and not from others.

So say you roll a 1,2 to see the enemy with a squadron of vendetta's.

Your first vendetta is within 9"
The other two snake backwards behind the first making the last vendetta over 20" away from the target.

How can that last vendetta see the enemy if his visibility is only 9"? The entire units range is 9" for that firing round!

Tomb King wrote:So say you roll a 1,2 to see the enemy with a squadron of vendetta's.

Your first vendetta is within 9"
The other two snake backwards behind the first making the last vendetta over 20" away from the target.

How can that last vendetta see the enemy if his visibility is only 9"? The entire units range is 9" for that firing round!

Only the one within range would be able to fire.

Note that squadron cover is also different than infantry cover.

Vehicle squadron cover saves are awarded on a per model basis, so if 2 vendettas are in the open and 1 is obscured, the owning player can allocate one pen to the obscured model and take a cover save.

italiaplaya wrote:

Tomb King wrote:So say you roll a 1,2 to see the enemy with a squadron of vendetta's.

Your first vendetta is within 9"
The other two snake backwards behind the first making the last vendetta over 20" away from the target.

How can that last vendetta see the enemy if his visibility is only 9"? The entire units range is 9" for that firing round!

Only the one within range would be able to fire.

And just like Ork_Smash earlier, you are wrong (See Yak's response). Once the unit (ie any model in the unit) sees the target, then the entire unit can shoot, following regular shooting rules for weapon range, etc etc.

italiaplaya wrote:

Tomb King wrote:So say you roll a 1,2 to see the enemy with a squadron of vendetta's.

Your first vendetta is within 9"
The other two snake backwards behind the first making the last vendetta over 20" away from the target.

How can that last vendetta see the enemy if his visibility is only 9"? The entire units range is 9" for that firing round!

Only the one within range would be able to fire.

Nope, everyone would be able to fire. You measure distance of weapons from the model, but distance for night fighting from the unit.

If it helps, think of the squad walking along, trying to find the enemy. It's dark out, and there's lots of mist or shadows or something. One member spots the enemy and opens fire on them. This directs the attention of the rest of the squad so they too can open fire. Their guns had plenty of range, they just needed help spotting their target.

hyv3mynd wrote:Note that squadron cover is also different than infantry cover.

Vehicle squadron cover saves are awarded on a per model basis, so if 2 vendettas are in the open and 1 is obscured, the owning player can allocate one pen to the obscured model and take a cover save.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Squadrons are EXACTLY the same as infantry units; if the unit is 50% or more obscured then the whole unit has a cover save.

Italiaplayer - no, not true, not at all. The range of their weapons is unchanged. The spotting distance is for the whole unit.