Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
AFAIK there has been a British submarine there since the invasion...
I'm fairly sure i read that on Wikipedia though so either Argentina's military intelligance is shockingly incompetant or someone made something up on Wikipedia and it happened to be true...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
purplefood wrote:AFAIK there has been a British submarine there since the invasion...
I'm fairly sure i read that on Wikipedia though so either Argentina's military intelligance is shockingly incompetant or someone made something up on Wikipedia and it happened to be true...
No I'm being a bit cheeky. That's exactly what happened. The HMS conqueror killed an Argetine warship (the first nuclear sub to kill people I beleive). The argentines knew they had nothing that could combat that and kept their navy in port for the duration of the war. Instead relying on land to sea missles (which were shocking effective from a British standpoint). Don't underetimate the power of a nuclear submarine: not everyone's got those.
purplefood wrote:AFAIK there has been a British submarine there since the invasion...
I'm fairly sure i read that on Wikipedia though so either Argentina's military intelligance is shockingly incompetant or someone made something up on Wikipedia and it happened to be true...
No I'm being a bit cheeky. That's exactly what happened. The HMS conqueror killed an Argetine warship (the first nuclear sub to kill people I beleive). The argentines knew they had nothing that could combat that and kept their navy in port for the duration of the war. Instead relying on land to sea missles (which were shocking effective from a British standpoint). Don't underetimate the power of a nuclear submarine: not everyone's got those.
There we go then...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
I believe another war would pretty much go the same way as the last one and that is what's preventing another one. Argentina lost and they know they'd lose again.
Monster Rain wrote:That's what they want you to think.
/tinfoil
Argentina!
Good at finding oil. Not good at getting to it.
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
BBC Article wrote:But you can't get eggs and you can't get vegetables. South America once traded happily with the islanders, supplying all their needs. But Buenos Aires has been working hard to cut the islands off.
Recently, Argentina persuaded other South American countries to turn Falklands-flagged vessels away from their ports. Ships rounding Cape Horn heading for the Falklands are routinely stopped, searched and delayed, so much so that merchant vessels have largely given up trying.
Argentina has also restricted air traffic. There is one flight a week from Chile. Argentina won't allow more than this to pass through its airspace. Now Argentina is threatening to close even this last link with mainland South America.
So they're effectively starving people and cutting them off from an entire continent because the UK won't give them the Falklands... Surely somewhere, in the convoluted mess of rules and regulations that is the UN, there is something that makes this illegal?
They're disrupting trade, cutting off transportation between South America and the Falklands, and actvely encouraging other countries to do the same for no reason other than they want that island; how can they say with any sort of seriousness that they care about the Falklands? How can they say that they have a claim to the Falklands when they have shown what they're willing to do to people who resist their rule?
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
BBC Article wrote:But you can't get eggs and you can't get vegetables. South America once traded happily with the islanders, supplying all their needs. But Buenos Aires has been working hard to cut the islands off.
Recently, Argentina persuaded other South American countries to turn Falklands-flagged vessels away from their ports. Ships rounding Cape Horn heading for the Falklands are routinely stopped, searched and delayed, so much so that merchant vessels have largely given up trying.
Argentina has also restricted air traffic. There is one flight a week from Chile. Argentina won't allow more than this to pass through its airspace. Now Argentina is threatening to close even this last link with mainland South America.
So they're effectively starving people and cutting them off from an entire continent because the UK won't give them the Falklands... Surely somewhere, in the convoluted mess of rules and regulations that is the UN, there is something that makes this illegal?
They're disrupting trade, cutting off transportation between South America and the Falklands, and actvely encouraging other countries to do the same for no reason other than they want that island; how can they say with any sort of seriousness that they care about the Falklands? How can they say that they have a claim to the Falklands when they have shown what they're willing to do to people who resist their rule?
There are some who would claim that is sufficient cause for a declaration of war...
Also fairly sure there are laws against it...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
BBC Article wrote:But you can't get eggs and you can't get vegetables. South America once traded happily with the islanders, supplying all their needs. But Buenos Aires has been working hard to cut the islands off.
Recently, Argentina persuaded other South American countries to turn Falklands-flagged vessels away from their ports. Ships rounding Cape Horn heading for the Falklands are routinely stopped, searched and delayed, so much so that merchant vessels have largely given up trying.
Argentina has also restricted air traffic. There is one flight a week from Chile. Argentina won't allow more than this to pass through its airspace. Now Argentina is threatening to close even this last link with mainland South America.
So they're effectively starving people and cutting them off from an entire continent because the UK won't give them the Falklands... Surely somewhere, in the convoluted mess of rules and regulations that is the UN, there is something that makes this illegal?
They're disrupting trade, cutting off transportation between South America and the Falklands, and actvely encouraging other countries to do the same for no reason other than they want that island; how can they say with any sort of seriousness that they care about the Falklands? How can they say that they have a claim to the Falklands when they have shown what they're willing to do to people who resist their rule?
It's no worse than what the US did/is doing to Cuba. Let them embargo the Falklands, it's not like those people are actually starving.
I hear the Islanders have been importanting lots of Nuclear fuel from the UK recently, anyway.
Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Zakiriel wrote:I think the R.N. has record for only nuclear submarine to engage an enemy ship with torpedos to date, H.M.S. Conqueror sinking ARA General Belgrano.
let alone sink
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
They wanted them before they knew there was oil there.
Correct.
Argentina is trying to make the world believe we want to 'steal' the islands for oil. To some extent its working as the thirst for oil is logical. However the Uk has a commitment to defend because the government that loses the islands will not be reelected and the Argies are committed to claiming them because the government that does so will guarantee re-election.
All in all a nasty combo, naturally the UK wants peace and quiet, because it has the islands so any genuine escalation is on the Argentine part. However an unopposed (why? Foreign Office why?) propaganda campaign is turning that issue into the reverse of what it is.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
AlmightyWalrus wrote:Wait, Argentina cites John Lennon and says "Let's give peace a chance"?! Yeah, the UK tried that, didn't work out very well.
I say let's not give Argentina a chance!
QFT Interesting they chose Lennon to quote.
Lennons idea of peace was to offer to put down your arms because Cold War era Communism will likely do nothing bad if not threatened.
I prefer this quote from Thomas Jefferson: The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
BBC Article wrote:But you can't get eggs and you can't get vegetables. South America once traded happily with the islanders, supplying all their needs. But Buenos Aires has been working hard to cut the islands off.
Recently, Argentina persuaded other South American countries to turn Falklands-flagged vessels away from their ports. Ships rounding Cape Horn heading for the Falklands are routinely stopped, searched and delayed, so much so that merchant vessels have largely given up trying.
Argentina has also restricted air traffic. There is one flight a week from Chile. Argentina won't allow more than this to pass through its airspace. Now Argentina is threatening to close even this last link with mainland South America.
So they're effectively starving people and cutting them off from an entire continent because the UK won't give them the Falklands... Surely somewhere, in the convoluted mess of rules and regulations that is the UN, there is something that makes this illegal?
They're disrupting trade, cutting off transportation between South America and the Falklands, and actvely encouraging other countries to do the same for no reason other than they want that island; how can they say with any sort of seriousness that they care about the Falklands? How can they say that they have a claim to the Falklands when they have shown what they're willing to do to people who resist their rule?
Indeed. Apparently Argentina are going crying to the UN to complain about us. Well that's the right venue to make them explain themselves trying to put the islanders under some sort of siege.
Well starving the islands out wont work.
To actually starve the islands out you need to hit a survival resource, so long as they have milk and meat and fish all they need to import are cereals for basic food survival and cereals are storable.
Shortages of non food supplies will likely hit much harder but are at the moment not being noticed as much.
In any case the islanders will undergo hardship, but that will only piss them off and harden their resolve.
The economic blockade has three main results:
1. Make the Argentinian populace feel good that something is being done.
2. Legitimise further action (boiled frog effect) because of lacklustre opposition to current methods. i.e if the UK dont complain, the UN cant complain and if the UN doesnt complain it's legitimate.
3. Bring in more flags quietly onto the Argentinian side because blockading the Falklands is something others 'can do at home' simply and effortlessly.
Dogma, good insight on the 'freedom' thing. The Jefferson quote is often misquoted with 'peace' rather than 'freedom'.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
They wont attack, Arg knows that the UK has the force to beat them, plus where there is oil there is an American task force.
Chapter Master of Vigilia Mortis www.battle-brothers.net ------
[b]Eternal Crusade Forum
Project: Thinking of creating HH 1st Company Imperial Fist Templars
A lot of the problem is that for Argentina it really is a big deal. They lost a lot of face post-Falklands War 1 and a lot of the population had thought they were winning right up until the end of the war thanks to the massive amount of propaganda. And then they wrote their claim to the Falklands into their constitution...
But yeah, given the whole self-determination thing built into the UN charter, it is a bit ridiculous. Also, pretty sure if Argentina has a claim, France and Spain have better ones.
As for carriers, Illustrious is taking over from Ocean while Ocean is refitted, and Ark Royal is being auctioned until 6th July. But as has been mentioned, we sold the Harriers to the US for spares, so we have nothing to chuck off either one, if the pilots even still had their ratings.
The one good thing the RN has managed to maintain though is a decent submarine force, so at least we have that... And yeah... The US didn't really get involved in the last one and beyond maybe (only maybe) giving us some intelligence wouldn't in this.
"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.
Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."
I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.
Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.
Southampton, Hampshire, England, British Isles, Europe, Earth, Sol, Sector 001
MadMuzza wrote:GOTCHA!
They wont attack, Arg knows that the UK has the force to beat them, plus where there is oil there is an American task force.
A wee bit cyincal there Chances are not much will happen about it, this flears up every 5 to 10 years. The Argis want the islands back, we say they wasn't theirs to begin with. The pull the Clames of the Spanish Empire bit, we say the islanders don't care. It goes back and forth like this every time.
I'm just wondering if they would try to pull the same trick with the Gurnsy isllands or the isle of Wight
They wont attack, Arg knows that the UK has the force to beat them, plus where there is oil there is an American task force.
A wee bit cyincal there Chances are not much will happen about it, this flears up every 5 to 10 years. The Argis want the islands back, we say they wasn't theirs to begin with. The pull the Clames of the Spanish Empire bit, we say the islanders don't care. It goes back and forth like this every time.
I'm just wondering if they would try to pull the same trick with the Gurnsy isllands or the isle of Wight
Sorry for coming across like that, I was based down on the Islands for a period of time, I can't go into it but the British learnt a lot from the previous conflict.
Chapter Master of Vigilia Mortis www.battle-brothers.net ------
[b]Eternal Crusade Forum
Project: Thinking of creating HH 1st Company Imperial Fist Templars
Southampton, Hampshire, England, British Isles, Europe, Earth, Sol, Sector 001
The latiest news from the BBC. "14 February 2012 Last updated at 02:24 Falklands dispute: Argentine union to boycott UK ships Argentina's transport workers' union says it will boycott ships flying the British flag because of the dispute over the Falkland Islands."
...And really Mr Penn? Sean Penn: "The world today is not going to tolerate any kind of ludicrous and archaic commitment to colonialist ideology."
The latiest news from the BBC...Again "15 February 2012 Last updated at 10:15 MPs to visit Falklands amid UK tensions with Argentina MPs from the Commons defence committee are set to visit the Falklands at a time of rising tensions with Argentina over the islands' future."
"The idea that a bunch of middle-age parliamentarians is an escalation of Britain's military presence flatters us beyond belief” Thomas Docherty Labour MP, defence select committee
...Got to like that as a British repsonce
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/15 11:15:08
Ribon Fox wrote:The latiest news from the BBC.
"14 February 2012 Last updated at 02:24
Falklands dispute: Argentine union to boycott UK ships
Argentina's transport workers' union says it will boycott ships flying the British flag because of the dispute over the Falkland Islands."
This is worrisome. By letting a union do it Argentina can de facto blockade trade without crossing international law. We often get the same love from the French.
Ribon Fox wrote:
...And really Mr Penn?
Sean Penn: "The world today is not going to tolerate any kind of ludicrous and archaic commitment to colonialist ideology."
Less worrisome, Sean Penn is a Boston plastic paddy. More Irish than the Irish and twice as Irish republican too. Thus in all scenarios the formula applies: UK = evil, therefore anti-UK = good. While I don't fault Kirchner for using him Penn is making a laughing stock of himself in the press, unsuprisingly in the UK but also abroad. The Canadian press did a rather unflattering piece on him echoed in several web papers. I am yet to find any press article that favourably reports his position, though I dont read Spanish or Gaelic language press so he will undoubtably have an audience somewhere.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/15 11:32:01
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
" -KingCracker
>Raptors Lead the Way < 
