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Not Online!!! wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
What's a Maniple?

A Roman legion unit, or in the case of 40k a specific Titan unit.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
An organised force.

Typically 3-5 Titans, with each granting a new rule or option etc.

Thx!

AT might be successful in some areas, but definitely not sweeping the nation. My immediate group (about 12) has precisely one AT collector. Of the large local facebook group I've seen one or two scant mentions - and zero people are playing it. As with many GW boutique products there are going to be small, vocal, and thriving communities (the groups that make podcasts about it, etc.). But a widely played and generally successful game? I haven't seen any indication of that. Necromunda is more popular here, but only just. There isn't any thriving Specialist Game here - and it's a decent sized metropolitan area.

I don't think people can judge anything GW does when it "sells" out. This is the massive multi-million dollar company that releases 10,000 of a new product worldwide. That's more or less guaranteed to sell out, regardless of what it is. That's not a useful thing to base a product's success on.

I think AT is probably selling "enough", but it's not just flying off the webstore I'd imagine - and it probably means there won't be a proper Epic replacement anytime soon.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Cypher226 wrote:

Spoiler:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

robbienw wrote:
I reckon it will be an announcement that 30k is going to be set up as its own studio, and new and updated normal sized FW models and vehicles will be produced in plastic going forward.

Nah. 30K ran its course and peaked quite a while back. Black Library is wrapping it up with 3rd tier authors and the Nolan Fanboy edge-lord "we-take-40K-super-super-serious-and-only-want-desaturated-colours-and-no-humour" crowd has luckily faded a bit these days, allowing GW to get back to some classic 40K fun (outside of a 2014ish design-leftover failures like like Adeptus Titanicus).

Cos John French, Guy Haley, ADB and Dan Abnett are '3rd tier authors'

Well, that would depend on who else is in the room, wouldn't it?

Or base it on authors / books that’s have won awards and entered charts etc

 Elbows wrote:
AT might be successful in some areas, but definitely not sweeping the nation. My immediate group (about 12) has precisely one AT collector. Of the large local facebook group I've seen one or two scant mentions - and zero people are playing it. As with many GW boutique products there are going to be small, vocal, and thriving communities (the groups that make podcasts about it, etc.). But a widely played and generally successful game? I haven't seen any indication of that. Necromunda is more popular here, but only just. There isn't any thriving Specialist Game here - and it's a decent sized metropolitan area.

I don't think people can judge anything GW does when it "sells" out. This is the massive multi-million dollar company that releases 10,000 of a new product worldwide. That's more or less guaranteed to sell out, regardless of what it is. That's not a useful thing to base a product's success on.

I think AT is probably selling "enough", but it's not just flying off the webstore I'd imagine - and it probably means there won't be a proper Epic replacement anytime soon.

Yup, not flying off the webstore at all, no sireebobadoolio, not even a little. I mean, if it were selling really well, things - plastic sprued things not just FW resin - would have sold out multiple times, or GW would have done something really crazy like dig up a total fossil of a game that was only sold online through FW for about five minutes in 2006, and release a new version of it with multiple all-plastic plane boxes with the same size ratio as the AT models...

And now I can't in see it.

 Azreal13 wrote:
And now I can't in see it.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Nice new cron Lord.

There's all sorts of weird "can't unsee" things in these new bonebois.

Hahaha

The more I think about the Ossiarchs, the more I really like their design. I may get a couple to convert into Necrons, since...well, they are, but I think the art direction is solid.

I would have preferred a turn towards the Tomb Kings, but these are supposed to represent a threat across many planes, not just a localized pseudo-Egyptian theme.

And if anything I would move that second pair of arms to be coming from the upper shoulder blades like a Lictor.

 Yodhrin wrote:
GW would have done something really crazy like dig up a total fossil of a game that was only sold online through FW for about five minutes in 2006, and release a new version of it with multiple all-plastic plane boxes with the same size ratio as the AT models...

What, the one that bears more than a passing resemblance to the only game to have possibly knocked 40K off the top spot (depending on who you ask) in modern times?

I'm sorry, but going after the X Wing £, when the company is clearly revisiting all the niches it neglected for years and allowed solid competition to flourish in, is a no brainer irrespective of how well any other game has done. That they already had some development time sunk into it and could get a head start just ices the cake.

That AI is going ahead simply excludes the possibility of AT being an unmitigated disaster, which we already knew. It doesn't really speak in any specific way to the level of its success.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
AT might be successful in some areas, but definitely not sweeping the nation. My immediate group (about 12) has precisely one AT collector. Of the large local facebook group I've seen one or two scant mentions - and zero people are playing it. As with many GW boutique products there are going to be small, vocal, and thriving communities (the groups that make podcasts about it, etc.). But a widely played and generally successful game? I haven't seen any indication of that. Necromunda is more popular here, but only just. There isn't any thriving Specialist Game here - and it's a decent sized metropolitan area.

I don't think people can judge anything GW does when it "sells" out. This is the massive multi-million dollar company that releases 10,000 of a new product worldwide. That's more or less guaranteed to sell out, regardless of what it is. That's not a useful thing to base a product's success on.

I think AT is probably selling "enough", but it's not just flying off the webstore I'd imagine - and it probably means there won't be a proper Epic replacement anytime soon.

Yup, not flying off the webstore at all, no sireebobadoolio, not even a little. I mean, if it were selling really well, things - plastic sprued things not just FW resin - would have sold out multiple times, or GW would have done something really crazy like dig up a total fossil of a game that was only sold online through FW for about five minutes in 2006, and release a new version of it with multiple all-plastic plane boxes with the same size ratio as the AT models...

You genuinely believe that GW is producing AT materials in bulk, as fast as they can, and that they're just selling out so fast they can't keep up? Genuine question. You actually think that's why they're selling out? Not because GW only makes small batch runs?

 Elbows wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
AT might be successful in some areas, but definitely not sweeping the nation. My immediate group (about 12) has precisely one AT collector. Of the large local facebook group I've seen one or two scant mentions - and zero people are playing it. As with many GW boutique products there are going to be small, vocal, and thriving communities (the groups that make podcasts about it, etc.). But a widely played and generally successful game? I haven't seen any indication of that. Necromunda is more popular here, but only just. There isn't any thriving Specialist Game here - and it's a decent sized metropolitan area.

I don't think people can judge anything GW does when it "sells" out. This is the massive multi-million dollar company that releases 10,000 of a new product worldwide. That's more or less guaranteed to sell out, regardless of what it is. That's not a useful thing to base a product's success on.

I think AT is probably selling "enough", but it's not just flying off the webstore I'd imagine - and it probably means there won't be a proper Epic replacement anytime soon.

Yup, not flying off the webstore at all, no sireebobadoolio, not even a little. I mean, if it were selling really well, things - plastic sprued things not just FW resin - would have sold out multiple times, or GW would have done something really crazy like dig up a total fossil of a game that was only sold online through FW for about five minutes in 2006, and release a new version of it with multiple all-plastic plane boxes with the same size ratio as the AT models...

You genuinely believe that GW is producing AT materials in bulk, as fast as they can, and that they're just selling out so fast they can't keep up? Genuine question. You actually think that's why they're selling out? Not because GW only makes small batch runs?

I don't know more than anyone else, yourself included. The only info I have is that they switched from resin to plastic because they anticipated higher demand based on Blood Bowl and Necromunda, things sell out frequently regardless, Andy Hoare says that's because it's phenomenally popular, and there's loads of social media activity surrounding the product. You can choose to construct some nefarious lizard people are trying to make AT seem more popular than it really is conspiracy around that info if you like, I don't see the need.

I think the problem is you're judging AT based on your own anecdotal experience and you're comparing it against 40K, which is just nonsense. If you choose to use whether or not a system can match 40K's player numbers and ubiquitous market penetration as the benchmark, then there aren't any other successful wargames in the world. I'm the only person I know who collects Star Wars Legion and even in areas where it's doing well and growing it still can't hold a candle to 40K, does that mean Legion is secretly failing despite FFG switching to hard plastic production and their boxes also frequently selling out?

 Azreal13 wrote:
X-wing.

I mean, I'm sure X-Wing was in the back of GW's mind when making the decision to do AI(although Shadespire is much more their attempt at direct competition in the low buy-in, highly competitive, card-based domain), but are you really suggesting that AT doing well had no bearing? That the fact GW chose not to make its own small-scale aerial combat game for seven years while X-Wing became a runaway success, made an AT revival first, and then proceeded to release their own aerial combat game only after it was clear AT was taking off is just a big ol' coinkydink? Righty ho. As to why I take it as indicative of success rather than merely an absence of failure - see above.

 TalonZahn wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Adeptus Titanicus.

The game that sold out quicker than an 80's Rock Band.

A failure?

K.

I love you Doc, but you and the rest of the "AT Boys" need to stop flogging this BS.

GW pumps out Limited Release gak all the time so everyone panic buys. PERIOD.

AT, overall, hasn't seen jack crap in releases other than stickers and MOAR KNIGHTS. It's actually one of the *least* supported games from GW right now.

It will die again, because there's just nothing there. AT fans are so thirsty for stuff, they're practically sacrificing chickens in hopes that AI will be in the same scale so they have something else to add on.

Yeah right. Warlord titan was one of the best selling new releases 2018 from gw period, all games considered.

Failure? Lol. Some people just can't help but to hate for sake of hating not everything can sell as much as space marines

 warboss wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:


I imagine him twisting dramatically in the air, asking himself deep and profound questions like "will the suffering ever end" and "why do this - nevermore" while BLAMing xenos with his silenced miniature rocket launcher...in Japanese. While anime rock music blares. And his support cast of several Seraphim and a few other Raven Guard dudes with unique hair colours posing dramatically in the background.

He is the incarnation of GW out-GW-ing themselves. He takes everything the Primaris took to eleven and pushes it to twelve. At LEAST.

Quoted for posterity. All he needs is a SOB scola initiate sensibly dressed in skorts below the knees with only a few armor plugs visible jumping up and down while fangirling on a scenic base.

The old mini had Problems, but..this...

 Yodhrin wrote:

I mean, I'm sure X-Wing was in the back of GW's mind when making the decision to do AI(although Shadespire is much more their attempt at direct competition in the low buy-in, highly competitive, card-based domain), but are you really suggesting that AT doing well had no bearing? That the fact GW chose not to make its own small-scale aerial combat game for seven years while X-Wing became a runaway success, made an AT revival first, and then proceeded to release their own aerial combat game only after it was clear AT was taking off is just a big ol' coinkydink? Righty ho. As to why I take it as indicative of success rather than merely an absence of failure - see above.

I don't know why you find that idea hard to grasp. The Kirby/Merritt era was all about doubling down on the core games and jacking up prices. For all those years there was approximately zero chance of GW doing anything else, and FW had very little resource and a long list of priorities to organise.

It is no more a coincidence AI being released off the back of AT than AT being released because Blood Bowl did ok. At least, not in any way you can prove. You're making an assumption based on the fact that two games share a scale, and little else. Pretty much everything GW has released recently outside of the core games has done ok, and that much broader context has likely led to a release beyond anything tied to a specific title, and it's perceived level of success tied to the sales of an indeterminate number of items.

GW releasing a line of SOB Scholam-Initiates in uniform seems to be the direction of the market these days.

So if you admit you have no concrete answer, why respond to a perfectly plausible post by being a complete snarky donkey-cave? What benefit do you get from that?

My anecdotal evidence is plenty to base my opinion on. My immediate and local groups are ravenous GW fanbois, and my other gaming group (in another major metropolitan area) while older has a long history of GW games, dating back some 20+ years. If a GW product isn't appearing in any of those bubbles, that says something. Necromunda is big with a handful of people. The people who are into it, are really into it. A few other people bought one gang box and assembled it before setting them aside. This is nothing new with GW Specialist Games, even back in the 90's. You have a small, very vocal die-hard community.

40K isn't the point, it's the fact that the wider communities both do quite a bit of 40K, and some AoS. Shadespire was big for a very short term, and some people got into Kill Team. It is worth noting that the same people who like Necromunda in my local area like AT. So they're probably more into the Specialist Games than other people.

So with my finger on the pulse of maybe 150-200 people combined in two major cities on the East coast...I can say it hasn't made an impact here. If it's not making an impact here, I doubt it's a complete outlier community. I said in my post that AT is probably doing fine, but I heartily disagree with your idea that they're just selling out because they can't keep up with demand. This is GW, they more or less never over-produce. If anything they frequently under-produce lines of miniatures on purpose because they're so risk-averse. You can disagree all you want, it's not going to change my mind.

Obviously we can't know anything for sure without peeking at the books. But we can be pretty sure that AT is meeting or exceeding GW's sales goals, or else they wouldn't be working on more expansions and kits. And there's no reason to doubt Andy Hoare's statements about the bean counters questioning if they'd sell that many GME sets (and then selling out immediately), or about selling through what they thought would be a year's supply of transfers in weeks.

None of that tells us how AT is doing *compared to anything else*, but if this stuff is happening, the game is definitely hitting its sales targets and making them money they want.

Am I the only one thinking those new Undead might make a great basis for new Necron Pariahs?

Arguing over how well something is selling without actually having access to sales figures is beyond pointless. Let's move on, guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Malika2 wrote:
Am I the only one thinking those new Undead might make a great basis for new Necron Pariahs?

Given how many people have been referring to them as Bonecrons, no, you're probably not the only one.

 Binabik15 wrote:
Shrike is the best model ever.

Tacticool bolt pistol with silencer. Foot claws mixed with Primaris landing skids. Fetishes and bling. The certainty that we won't see "Assault Primaris with jump packs" soon - or ever - otherwise he'd be in their armour. Huge tactical rock. Facemask under the helmet. That haircut.

I imagine him twisting dramatically in the air, asking himself deep and profound questions like "will the suffering ever end" and "why do this - nevermore" while BLAMing xenos with his silenced miniature rocket launcher...in Japanese. While anime rock music blares. And his support cast of several Seraphim and a few other Raven Guard dudes with unique hair colours posing dramatically in the background.

He is the incarnation of GW out-GW-ing themselves. He takes everything the Primaris took to eleven and pushes it to twelve. At LEAST.

you sir win the internets for the day

What a tease most of those announcements were...Any more info on that Necromunda expansion? Any info on what other models are getting Merc rules for Warcry?

 dan2026 wrote:
My dog who works at Nintendo told me there would be new Aspect Warriors announced.

Right- any chance this dog has any info on who is coming along with Banshees ??

I’d really accept painting the bone-peeps silver as a conversion to Necrons.

Honestly, at least to me, the new Mortarch kit is like a strike with a wet glove in the face to all the other plastic model makers, with GW proclaiming they are THE MASTERS of what they do.
I really like that model. But will I ever buy it? Most definitely, positively - no.

 insaniak wrote:
Arguing over how well something is selling without actually having access to sales figures is beyond pointless. Let's move on, guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Malika2 wrote:
Am I the only one thinking those new Undead might make a great basis for new Necron Pariahs?

Given how many people have been referring to them as Bonecrons, no, you're probably not the only one.

I hope that Pariahs don't look like Ossiarchs, if they bring them back.
They look like toys from the 80s-early 90s, the ones that have a TV show associated with them. Its as if the designers binge watched Skeleton Warriors and decided to use that for inspiration



GW is still using that terrible naming convention where everything has to have 2 names. Why not just call them Ossiarchs? Is the bonereaper that necessary? It doesn't even make sense as a name. Do they reap bone? Are there bone fields in the underworld that needs harvesting? I don't get it.

Whoah!!! Totally did not see that coming. That catapult with legs is something I really really like - these guys seem like necrons crossed with Tyranids.

 kestral wrote:
Whoah!!! Totally did not see that coming. That catapult with legs is something I really really like - these guys seem like necrons crossed with Tyranids.

Yeah, the catapult itself is a neat design. The crew though, not so much.

 Yodhrin wrote:
There's all sorts of weird "can't unsee" things in these new bonebois.

I saw the Skeleton models at NOVA today, in the display case at the GW alcove.

They look good. A little taller than a Primaris Marine, viewed from an angle it's a big body with lots of swords and stuff coming out.

One of those rare situations where the detailed picture makes the model look worse.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
There's all sorts of weird "can't unsee" things in these new bonebois.

I saw the Skeleton models at NOVA today, in the display case at the GW alcove.

They look good. A little taller than a Primaris Marine, viewed from an angle it's a big body with lots of swords and stuff coming out.

One of those rare situations where the detailed picture makes the model look worse.

Did you see the catapult? For all the photos I'm wondering if its much bigger than a plague catapult for Skaven (save that the arm on the bone one is likely taller when built with it up in the fired position)