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Anyone have a look at the new book "Hellfire and Back"?

If so, how does it compare to the other North Africa book or the EW Blitzkrieg book? I'm specifically interested in the Brits and Italians.

Well, it's early war desert, so that's how it compares to midwar desert

Italians keep 8MB like Midwar, but much more conscript.
Brits have the armored regiment with a slightly different organization, and the option of adding in the heavier Crusaders.

Not quite as much new stuff/concepts as Blitzkrieg, but still a great book nonetheless.

I've got it and I think it's a tad better than Blitzkrieg.

They've got some new terrain rules which are decent.

Italians have some of the earlier equipment, like the M13/40's, L3/33-35's, M11/39's, 102/35 coastal-guns mounted on trucks for long range AT, and some 105/28 artillery guns.

Lists are different, with each faction having a strong-point defense army lists that use fortifications and obstacles ala the siege of Tobruk.

Model-wise, there is some new stuff comming out; desert cruiser tanks for the brits, CR.42 Falcos and a boxed set of M13/40's that can be built as M14/41's, etc.

Germans get a MG-Kompanie that can be used as either HMG teams when dismounted from their trucks or regular mg infantry teams upon deployment. They have a cool warrior (Hubner) who mans a 88mm gun team and can still have a ROF 3 when pinned....

Brits get the Jock Column, a mechanized blocking force, an armored car squadron (Morris CS9's, Rolls Royce [RAF], Marmon Herrington II/III's, and Humber I/II's) and the Valentines make an appearance as well as the Matilda II's. The Aussie and New Zealander Div Cav lists are present as well.

I like it so far as I play Italians for MW and it was a pleasant suprise with some new units featured. Yes, the 8MB chart has some less skilled ratings there, but the orgs of the lists seem decent enough for me.

Still reading through it to work out some fo the details, but it's all good for me....

Do the Brits get anything other than the 2pdr ATG in portee or unmounted, notably the 6pdr ATG by chance?

ThirdUltra wrote:
Italians have some of the earlier equipment, like the M13/40's, L3/33-35's, M11/39's, 102/35 coastal-guns mounted on trucks for long range AT, and some 105/28 artillery guns.
....
I like it so far as I play Italians for MW and it was a pleasant suprise with some new units featured. Yes, the 8MB chart has some less skilled ratings there, but the orgs of the lists seem decent enough for me.

Still reading through it to work out some fo the details, but it's all good for me....

I'm curious, how do the 102-35s stack up against the Lancia de 90-53s? I'm in the process of building an Esplorante Squadrone for MW and the Lancias are my pride and joy.

ancientsociety wrote:Do the Brits get anything other than the 2pdr ATG in portee or unmounted, notably the 6pdr ATG by chance?

ThirdUltra wrote:
Italians have some of the earlier equipment, like the M13/40's, L3/33-35's, M11/39's, 102/35 coastal-guns mounted on trucks for long range AT, and some 105/28 artillery guns.
....
I like it so far as I play Italians for MW and it was a pleasant suprise with some new units featured. Yes, the 8MB chart has some less skilled ratings there, but the orgs of the lists seem decent enough for me.

Still reading through it to work out some fo the details, but it's all good for me....

I'm curious, how do the 102-35s stack up against the Lancia de 90-53s? I'm in the process of building an Esplorante Squadrone for MW and the Lancias are my pride and joy.

Well, since this is EW, they're only AT 10, and for this era, it's about as heavy as they got for dedicated AT guns besides the old reliable artillery Skoda 100's and the 75/27's.
The Lancias are also my pride and joy for my MW Bersag force.

The Bersags in this period are organized in a more standard manner, unlike their AS42 organization for MW, but points-wise they appear to be a bit cheaper as well (110 points for three 8-man squads).

ancientsociety wrote:Do the Brits get anything other than the 2pdr ATG in portee or unmounted, notably the 6pdr ATG by chance?
I'm curious, how do the 102-35s stack up against the Lancia de 90-53s? I'm in the process of building an Esplorante Squadrone for MW and the Lancias are my pride and joy.

The 6pdr does not make an appearence until Midwar. The brits do get Italian 47/52s, French 25mm and bofors 37mm guns in Portee. The Italian guns are goo because they are not stuck with no HE so they can be useful on infantry as well.

The 102-35s are not as good as the 90s. They have no stabilization and no gun shield either. All in all the Italian lists are very similar to those from the original Afrika book put out for Midwar. The Italians do have some new toys to play with, though, such as the 102-35s. They aren't necessarily great toys, but new nonetheless.

I have looked most at the British lists and the brits definitely have a ton of different armored list options. The armoured regiment is similar to that found in Blitzkrieg, though different enough to require some more purchases. It can also focus solely on Vickers Mk VI B tanks and can also include a ton of captured Italian tanks instead as well. The honey stuart regiment looks interesting. The Matilida II also returns as the big boy on the block and the Valentine II is added to the Infantry Tank company. I still find that the infantry tanks are just too expensive to make a decent list from them even at 1750. Just not enough platoons and against infantry their 2pdrs are useless still.

Plenty of interesting options overall for the british. I am confused as to why the Vickers MKVI C is on the British equipment list when it isn't available as a main choice or an optional choice in any of the british lists. Definitely weird. Not as annoying though as the 3.7" guns being on the british list in Blitzkrieg but only usable as support for *French* lists...

I am liking the missions that have been added to the book, especially the new cauldron option. The fortification rules and options are also pretty comprehensive and interesting. I guess it might be time for me to finally build up some fortifictions for FoW.

Some of the lists certainly show more "game balance" than historical reference in them. It is odd that the Australians from the Tobruk list do not have Italian tanks. Many were used there, in fact there is at least 1 icon WWII image showing multiple M13/40s with australian markings sitting watch in front of Tobruk...heck that picture is in the book. Hahahahahaha

Apolgies as I have not looked at the German lists at all...guess I'll eventually get around to it.

All in all I am quite happy as a British player with the new book. I really like it and I am looking forward to some EW desert action!

Skriker

ThirdUltra wrote:

The Bersags in this period are organized in a more standard manner, unlike their AS42 organization for MW, but points-wise they appear to be a bit cheaper as well (110 points for three 8-man squads).

Is there an option to still take the anti-tank guns or machine guns?

General Seric wrote:

ThirdUltra wrote:

The Bersags in this period are organized in a more standard manner, unlike their AS42 organization for MW, but points-wise they appear to be a bit cheaper as well (110 points for three 8-man squads).

Is there an option to still take the anti-tank guns or machine guns?

You can take HMG platoons and at-guns in the form of the 47/32 platoons similar to what the standard Fucilieri lists are. Looks very similar to what a brit rifle list would be for MW.
Demolishers are still listed as well, along with the flame-thrower L3/33's....they're listed in the armor section for flame thrower platoons.

But yeah, cool stuff nonetheless......

Skriker wrote:I am confused as to why the Vickers MKVI C is on the British equipment list when it isn't available as a main choice or an optional choice in any of the british lists. Definitely weird. Not as annoying though as the 3.7" guns being on the british list in Blitzkrieg but only usable as support for *French* lists...

Finally found the Vickers MKVI C last night hiding in the Infantry Tank Company list HQ platoon. I can stop being confuseled now.

Skriker

I just got the book and it does look really good although I do wonder why the Bersaglieri gain reconnaissance abilities when they jump on a motorcycle!

I'm pretty excited about this book. I love the playing North Africa games in Mid War, and this would be an easy way for me to branch out to Early War. How does the Indian Army infantry list look? My first WWII army was Afrika Korps Panzergrenadiers, and I've been wanting to finish my Indians and maybe do a little Italian force at some point, and this book could give me a good excuse to do all that.

Can Germans still take some Italian units as support choices, and vice versa? Can an Indian infantry company still take a British infantry platoon as a support option as well? Any major differences for Indian infantry compared to Mid War?

Hordini wrote:I'm pretty excited about this book. I love the playing North Africa games in Mid War, and this would be an easy way for me to branch out to Early War. How does the Indian Army infantry list look? My first WWII army was Afrika Korps Panzergrenadiers, and I've been wanting to finish my Indians and maybe do a little Italian force at some point, and this book could give me a good excuse to do all that.

Can Germans still take some Italian units as support choices, and vice versa? Can an Indian infantry company still take a British infantry platoon as a support option as well? Any major differences for Indian infantry compared to Mid War?

The Indian Infantry company in Hellfire is F/T as far as motivation and skill go; they're considerably cheaper than Guards and 8th army troops, even though they still retain their War Cry and Mountaineer status. They can get Bren Gun Carriers and 3" mortars for weapons platoons, 37mm Bofors Portee/ 2pdr Portees for their Brigade AT platoons, 8th army HMG platoons and transport sections....all under their Brigade Support.

They get decent armor support with Matilda II and Valentine tank platoons, Portee AT Platoons-Royal Arty (and Royal Horse), Field Battery-Royal Arty consisting of 25 pdrs, 18/25 pdrs, 4.5" guns, and 18 pdrs. Their AA is the Bofors 40mm guns under the 8th army support. The air support is intercept-only at Sporadic using the Hurricane II's.

The Germans can take Italian allies under the Stützpunkt and Infanteriekompanie list in the form of Canon Batteries (75/27 guns) and Howitzer Batteries (100/17's), and in the Leichte Panzerkompanie, they can take an Italian Carri platoon. Most of the German lists can take Luftwaffe Field Company allies as well.

The Italians do not have any German allies in any of their lists, though the Posizione Di Fucilieri can have Libyan troops as their own list though.